Taoist Tai Chi Society anyone?

[oxy]

And for the Record Fulan Gong likes to make people think it is only doing Qigong and it is most certainly a cult.
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.
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And many in Fulan Gong only do Qi Gong and it is still a cult organization so this too is not a defense.

I haven't seen any credible evidence as to the cultness of Falun Gong. All the "evidence" I've seen have been assertions by the CCP which has never been substantiated.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

I haven't seen any credible evidence as to the cultness of Falun Gong. All the "evidence" I've seen have been assertions by the CCP which has never been substantiated.

I'm no fan of the CCP but Falun Dafa is widely seen as a cult here in Taiwan too. I believe they are as well.

 

[oxy]

I'm no fan of the CCP but Falun Dafa is widely seen as a cult here in Taiwan too. I believe they are as well.

It's not that they are perceived to be a cult that is the problem, for me, but the reasons for which they get that perception.

All the reasons I have encountered are either made by the CCP, or are made by people who have heard second hand rumours (which sounds suspiciously like the ones made by the CCP) or based on completely flawed logic/studies.

I'm an atheist of a secular humanist bent. I've read their Falun Dafa book and none of it strikes me as cultish. Sure, they have their beliefs, but nothing I haven't encountered in other major religions. The fundamentalist Christian churches in the US pose more of a threat than Falun Dafa will and I don't see them portrayed as a cult.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I haven't seen any credible evidence as to the cultness of Falun Gong. All the "evidence" I've seen have been assertions by the CCP which has never been substantiated.

Whatever you wish to think is ok with me I have not the energy or the desire to debate it.

 

[DaPoets]

It's freedom of religion... It's a religious organization that teaches Taoist Tai Chi... What is not to get or understand. 99.99% of it's member could be of other faiths/beliefs but in the end it is a religious org and if you want to experience that side of it, there is a world of stuff to experience. I chant, I pay my respects to the living and the dead when I'm at the temples, I take part in the different ceremonies and festivals that go on at times, so please don't even start with judging who can practice what religion and be treated and not be treated as a religious organization.

Again I would go to Bible study but I'm not christian... I would go to Catholic schools and I'm not Catholic, I would go to events held by the nation of islam, and I'm not muslim, but in your view, because I went to those things but don't belive in them then those organizations should not be considered religious but of a commercial nature?

it's that type of religious intollerance that has created such a dark cloud on the history of religion, intollerance, and hate.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's freedom of religion... It's a religious organization that teaches Taoist Tai Chi... What is not to get or understand. 99.99% of it's member could be of other faiths/beliefs but in the end it is a religious org and if you want to experience that side of it, there is a world of stuff to experience. I chant, I pay my respects to the living and the dead when I'm at the temples, I take part in the different ceremonies and festivals that go on at times, so please don't even start with judging who can practice what religion and be treated and not be treated as a religious organization.

Again I would go to Bible study but I'm not christian... I would go to Catholic schools and I'm not Catholic, I would go to events held by the nation of islam, and I'm not muslim, but in your view, because I went to those things but don't belive in them then those organizations should not be considered religious but of a commercial nature?

it's that type of religious intollerance that has created such a dark cloud on the history of religion, intollerance, and hate.

First I think you are taking this someplace it was not going which is into the area of religious intolerance. I do not see any other post here that hints at that at all.

I do not think anyone is displaying religious intolerance towards Taoism but they are questioning the motives and objectives of the TTCS. The fact that the word "Taoist" is in the name is just a label not the religion and if you cannot seperate those then that is another issue.

Second I do not believe the TTCS teaches Taoist Taiji (Tai Chi) to be 100% correct here. They appear to teach a modified Yang style which is not something practiced by Taoists at Wudangshan, Baiyunguan, Jinding, Longhushan, Nanyangong, etc.

It again just happens to be a modified Yang practiced by a group that has labeled themselves "Taoist Tai Chi Society" but that does not make it Taoist Taijiquan.

 

[DaPoets]

Seeing how Taoist Tai Chi was developed by a Taoist Master who lived in Taoist Temples, founded and co-founded Taoist Temples in Hong Kong and other places I think he has the right to call the form Taoist Tai Chi when the healing and longevity principles of Taoism were applied to the Yang Style of Tai Chi to create a new form with a focus just on health and not on external martial application. Just because Wudangshan, Baiyunguan, Jinding, Longhushan, Nanyangong don't practice it doesn't invalidate it in the least bit especially when it is a form that was created as recently as the 1970's. Master Moy came to North America wanting to teach Lok Hup Ba Fa but realized that the average person here wasn't strong enough to learn and practice it correctly, so he developed Taoist Tai Chi to help people get healthier so they could then eventually learn other forms like Lok Hup Ba Fa, Hsing-I and others.

But I grow tired of defending the TTCS on this board so this is my last post about this matter for a while. I look forward to engaging discusions of other forms, techniques, and applications.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Seeing how Taoist Tai Chi was developed by a Taoist Master who lived in Taoist Temples, founded and co-founded Taoist Temples in Hong Kong and other places I think he has the right to call the form Taoist Tai Chi when the healing and longevity principles of Taoism were applied to the Yang Style of Tai Chi to create a new form with a focus just on health and not on external martial application. Just because Wudangshan, Baiyunguan, Jinding, Longhushan, Nanyangong don't practice it doesn't invalidate it in the least bit especially when it is a form that was created as recently as the 1970's. Master Moy came to North America wanting to teach Lok Hup Ba Fa but realized that the average person here wasn't strong enough to learn and practice it correctly, so he developed Taoist Tai Chi to help people get healthier so they could then eventually learn other forms like Lok Hup Ba Fa, Hsing-I and others.

But I grow tired of defending the TTCS on this board so this is my last post about this matter for a while. I look forward to engaging discusions of other forms, techniques, and applications.

DaPoets

I was not attacking Taoist Taiji or the Taoist Tai Chi Society I was talking purely based on history and lineage. It is what it is, modified Yang, and I am sorry that is a problem but it is not a Taoist form of Taiji form any of the old Taoist styles currently in China. That is unless you go for the questionable Zhang Sanfeng connection.

If you want to call it Taoist Tai Chi because a Taoist modified Yang style to make it then so be it call it Taoist Tai Chi.

Xue Sheng

 

[DaPoets]

This was just sent to me.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=842998


Canadian Heritage



Apr 11, 2008 15:00 ETThe Government of Canada is Proud to Participate in Taoist Tai Chi Society of Canada's Festival of Health and Longevity
VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwire - April 11, 2008) - The Honourable Jason Kenney, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism and Canadian Identity), will speak tomorrow at the Taoist Tai Chi Society of Canada's Festival of Health and Longevity.

"Over the past 38 years, the Taoist Tai Chi Society has grown to become an international organization with thousands of members in branches across British Columbia, Canada, and the world, promoting a proactive approach to health care among its members and the public," said Secretary of State Kenney. "The Government of Canada considers Canada's diversity to be one of our greatest assets, and we are committed to strengthening our pluralism and national cohesion."

"We are pleased to be celebrating our first year in our new location and our 25th year of teaching these valuable health-improving arts in Vancouver, as entrusted to us by our founder, Master Moy Lin Shin," said Dr. Barb Conway, President of the Vancouver branch of the Taoist Tai Chi Society. "The Festival of Health and Longevity gives us an opportunity to reach out to the community to let them know about the value of Taoist tai chi internal arts of health for restoring and maintaining good health."

The Festival of Health and Longevity celebrates and promotes the many benefits of Taoist tai chi's internal arts and methods for physical, mental, and spiritual health and well-being. The festival also marks the first anniversary of the society's new building in Vancouver.

The Government of Canada is committed to reaching out to all Canadians and is developing lasting relationships with ethnic and religious communities in Canada. It encourages these communities to participate fully in Canadian society by enhancing their level of economic, social, and cultural integration.

This news release is available on the Internet at www.canadianheritage.gc.ca under Media Room.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

It's freedom of religion... It's a religious organization that teaches Taoist Tai Chi... What is not to get or understand.
it's that type of religious intollerance that has created such a dark cloud on the history of religion, intollerance, and hate.

It's a business immorally hiding behind a religious front in order to turn a profit by not paying taxes. What is hard to understand?

Let me make it clearer for you.

Imagine you're a business man that sells a product that you've invested a lot of time in. Then a "church" that says they worship Guan Gong -- the Chinese god of business -- moves in next door. But 95% of what they do is sell the exact same product that you do. Only instead of a high quality/low volume model (what is arguably needed to spread decent product like taiji) they use a low quality/ high volume scheme. They hide behind their tax-free status to do this. Then to make things worse, they empower their customers to go sell the product with the same tax-free, low quality model.

If you were a businessman in such a situation, I think you'd see this real quickly.

BTW your attempts to paint me as some hick fundamentalist with a grudge against daoism won't work.

 

[grydth]

This was just sent to me.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=842998


Canadian Heritage



Apr 11, 2008 15:00 ETThe Government of Canada is Proud to Participate in Taoist Tai Chi Society of Canada's Festival of Health and Longevity
VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwire - April 11, 2008) - The Honourable Jason Kenney, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism and Canadian Identity), will speak tomorrow at the Taoist Tai Chi Society of Canada's Festival of Health and Longevity.

"Over the past 38 years, the Taoist Tai Chi Society has grown to become an international organization with thousands of members in branches across British Columbia, Canada, and the world, promoting a proactive approach to health care among its members and the public," said Secretary of State Kenney. "The Government of Canada considers Canada's diversity to be one of our greatest assets, and we are committed to strengthening our pluralism and national cohesion."

"We are pleased to be celebrating our first year in our new location and our 25th year of teaching these valuable health-improving arts in Vancouver, as entrusted to us by our founder, Master Moy Lin Shin," said Dr. Barb Conway, President of the Vancouver branch of the Taoist Tai Chi Society. "The Festival of Health and Longevity gives us an opportunity to reach out to the community to let them know about the value of Taoist tai chi internal arts of health for restoring and maintaining good health."

The Festival of Health and Longevity celebrates and promotes the many benefits of Taoist tai chi's internal arts and methods for physical, mental, and spiritual health and well-being. The festival also marks the first anniversary of the society's new building in Vancouver.

The Government of Canada is committed to reaching out to all Canadians and is developing lasting relationships with ethnic and religious communities in Canada. It encourages these communities to participate fully in Canadian society by enhancing their level of economic, social, and cultural integration.

This news release is available on the Internet at www.canadianheritage.gc.ca under Media Room.

This contributes exactly zero to the discussion at hand.

If only volume of print could substitute for substance, we might have some firm answers about this suspect outfit..... but said substitution cannot be made, and 'things just get curiouser and curiouser.'

 

[Myrmidon]

This contributes exactly zero to the discussion at hand.

If only volume of print could substitute for substance, we might have some firm answers about this suspect outfit..... but said substitution cannot be made, and 'things just get curiouser and curiouser.'

True... And I would add this: "The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained."

 

[Myrmidon]

Seeing how Taoist Tai Chi was developed by a Taoist Master who lived in Taoist Temples, founded and co-founded Taoist Temples in Hong Kong and other places I think he has the right to call the form Taoist Tai Chi when the healing and longevity principles of Taoism were applied to the Yang Style of Tai Chi to create a new form with a focus just on health and not on external martial application.

Are you suggesting that "Taoist" Tai Chi is superior to traditional Yang style taijiquan in improving the health of those who practice it?

But I grow tired of defending the TTCS on this board so this is my last post about this matter for a while. I look forward to engaging discusions of other forms, techniques, and applications.

Techniques and applications? I am listening...

 

[mograph]

With respect, there seem to be three kinds of people who express opinions regarding the TTCS:

1. members of the TTCS,
2. non-members,
3. ex-members.

In my experience, I've found that ex-members express the most balanced and informed opinion regarding the TTCS in the greater martial arts context. For what it's worth.

Disclosure: I'm an ex-member.

 

[DaPoets]

What about current members with previous martial arts experience.... I would say that's a 4th type as there are plenty with no experience at all. I would say I'm that 4th type.

With respect, there seem to be three kinds of people who express opinions regarding the TTCS:

1. members of the TTCS,
2. non-members,
3. ex-members.

In my experience, I've found that ex-members express the most balanced and informed opinion regarding the TTCS in the greater martial arts context. For what it's worth.

Disclosure: I'm an ex-member.

 

[DaPoets]

With this logic, all the Catholic schools I went to growing up should close since it's unfair that they are really businesses hiding behind a religious front? Wow you are funny...

It's a business immorally hiding behind a religious front in order to turn a profit by not paying taxes. What is hard to understand?

Let me make it clearer for you.

Imagine you're a business man that sells a product that you've invested a lot of time in. Then a "church" that says they worship Guan Gong -- the Chinese god of business -- moves in next door. But 95% of what they do is sell the exact same product that you do. Only instead of a high quality/low volume model (what is arguably needed to spread decent product like taiji) they use a low quality/ high volume scheme. They hide behind their tax-free status to do this. Then to make things worse, they empower their customers to go sell the product with the same tax-free, low quality model.

If you were a businessman in such a situation, I think you'd see this real quickly.

BTW your attempts to paint me as some hick fundamentalist with a grudge against daoism won't work.

 

[Xue Sheng]

With respect, there seem to be three kinds of people who express opinions regarding the TTCS:

1. members of the TTCS,
2. non-members,
3. ex-members.

In my experience, I've found that ex-members express the most balanced and informed opinion regarding the TTCS in the greater martial arts context. For what it's worth.

Disclosure: I'm an ex-member.

So is East Winds

 

[DaPoets]

Yep and I greatly respect his point of view on this matter and will also look to some guidance from him when I branch out from TTCS again sometime in the future.

My history is short Pre-TTCS but I have done this:

Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan
Praying Mantis Kung Fu
Karate
Tae Kwon Do
Wrestling

I am clearly much more advanced in TTCS Tai Chi than any of the other forms but those other styles led me to appreciate how much I am able to bennifit from TTCS as well as how much more is out there that I will eventualy learn from other styles later in my life.

So is East Winds

 

[mograph]

What about current members with previous martial arts experience.... I would say that's a 4th type as there are plenty with no experience at all. I would say I'm that 4th type.

Yeah, I'll buy that.

1. current members of the TTCS,
2. non-members of the TTCS,
3. ex-members of the TTCS,
4. current members with martial arts experience outside the TTCS.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yeah, I'll buy that.

1. current members of the TTCS,
2. non-members of the TTCS,
3. ex-members of the TTCS,
4. current members with martial arts experience outside the TTCS.

If that is the case then there would also be a 5th type

Non-member with martial arts experience which just about takes in everyone on MT.

And there could be a 6th type
Non-member with Chinese martial arts experience

And a 7th type
Non-member with Taijiquan experience.

I would then fall into groups 2, 5, 6, and 7 as would many others on MT

Member or not if you watch the form and know what you are looking at you can get a pretty good idea of what is going on as far as the form(s) are concerned.

As to the internal operation of TTCS I have no doubt a member or ex-member would have a much better idea about it than I.