talk to me about Kusari fundo

[Indagator]

Oops I inadvertently breached a rule by posting that article. Sorry, guys.

As for the dimensions, mine is actually dimensionally incorrect as I made it myself using chain from the hardware store with two heavy "bomb" sinkers from a fishing specialist store as the weights at the ends - the tapered shape is there but it is more of a squared-off teardrop shape than a tapering hexagon.
Somebody I train with has a proper one which was obtained from a martial arts supplier that carries/manufactures some pretty intense hardware. Most of the stuff the supplier will not sell without evidence of a current martial arts license or registration of some sort AFAIK.
For practice we normally just use a rope with knots in the ends, although sometimes at training we do use the real deal in order to experience the different sensations (both giving and receiving).
I still remember how surprised I was the first time I was granted a taste of the painful capabilities of a mere knotted rope!

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

so kusari fundo means chain weight? what if the chain is much longer. like 3 meters or more would this still be considered kusari fundo? i remember seeing a japanese version of a rope dart. the rope was replaced by chain. probley better at trapping and disarming weapons. but i can't remember the name. anyone know what im talking about?

 

[Chris Parker]

Oops I inadvertently breached a rule by posting that article. Sorry, guys.

As for the dimensions, mine is actually dimensionally incorrect as I made it myself using chain from the hardware store with two heavy "bomb" sinkers from a fishing specialist store as the weights at the ends - the tapered shape is there but it is more of a squared-off teardrop shape than a tapering hexagon.
Somebody I train with has a proper one which was obtained from a martial arts supplier that carries/manufactures some pretty intense hardware. Most of the stuff the supplier will not sell without evidence of a current martial arts license or registration of some sort AFAIK.
For practice we normally just use a rope with knots in the ends, although sometimes at training we do use the real deal in order to experience the different sensations (both giving and receiving).
I still remember how surprised I was the first time I was granted a taste of the painful capabilities of a mere knotted rope!

Ha, yeah, I know what you mean... we also use a knotted rope for our training version. One of my guys recently brought in a training version he brought in which has heavier plastic "weights" on each end of the rope, which I kinda took apart as a training tool. The most important thing wasn't even the safety of using the weights there, it was that as there were different materials being used, the balance and distribution of weight was so far off that the rope with knots is far more accurate. This thing wasn't even good enough to practice spinning it with.

My first experience with the weapon, though , was interesting. It was a very small class (my instructor, a 7th Kyu, and myself as an 8th Kyu only), so for "fun", my instructor brought out a real one, and we got to feel what it felt like with a real chain as well as with the training ropes! Ah, the old days....

so kusari fundo means chain weight? what if the chain is much longer. like 3 meters or more would this still be considered kusari fundo? i remember seeing a japanese version of a rope dart. the rope was replaced by chain. probley better at trapping and disarming weapons. but i can't remember the name. anyone know what im talking about?

Kusari = Chain, Fundo = Weight, so yes. And really, what if the chain is three meters? It's still a chain, isn't it? As said (more than once now!) the specific measurements are determined by the school itself. Some schools only have a broad category refered to as Kusarijutsu, which includes Kusarifundo-style weapons, Kusarigama, Chigiriki, and so on. There is no one set version, other than for specific schools.

I'd ask where you saw that weapon, as I have only come across three things even similar. The first is in movies, and is very removed from reality (think things like Ninja Assassin, the weapon used in that film is pure Holywood, and not to be taken as serious, realistic, or anything similar). The second is from a group who claim some link to some legit usage, but the demonstrations are rather lacking (trying hard not to say they made it all up here....). The last is the only version close to legitimate, where a rope was attached to a form of shuriken (from Takemura Ryu), but that is thought to possibly be a way of "capturing" a decapitated head to bring it back to be presented (the name of this type of shuriken translates as "decapitated head piercing shuriken"). Not a chain, though.

In terms of a longer chain being better at disarms and trapping, no, that's not the case. A longer chain would be an advantage in that it'll keep you out of the attackers weapon range (such as a sword), in order to disarm or trap, you need to get in close, so you just end up with a lot more chain than you need in close.

 

[Cryozombie]

My first experience with the weapon, though , was interesting. It was a very small class (my instructor, a 7th Kyu, and myself as an 8th Kyu only), so for "fun", my instructor brought out a real one, and we got to feel what it felt like with a real chain as well as with the training ropes! Ah, the old days....

In our dojo when we do Kusari Fundo, we train with the knotted rope, but are requried to use a real one against a tree so we understand how it moves and bounces back, so we can develop proper footwork to avoid getting hit by the weight when it rebounds from the trunk... (And when we miss... lol)

 

[Aiki Lee]

Where have you found a decent quality metal kusari fundo? All the one's i've used break apart too easily.

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

the one i saw was actually a surujin. i doubt this would be used like a rope dart were they make loops and nots around the body and than shoot out the dart. but i was thinking it was used more like a kusarigama were you swing one end and release to trap things like sword or spear from a distance . they say somewere that surujin was truly a battlefield weapon. but i dont think it would be very useful as a primary weapon. also read somewere that the pointy end could be swung with enough force to stick into an oak tree.

is it a common thing that flexible weapons are sometimes more dangerous to the one using it since they are so hard to control. the wieghts can swing back and hit you and able to crack your skull and shatter bones. I shudder at the thought of some kid tying a rope to a knife and swinging it around after watching ninja assasin.

oh and i have seen a picture of hatsumi throwing a spiked ring shuriken with a rope and always wondered what it was. that is very interesting. i have seen really big ring shuriken like this too but without the rope.

 

[Indagator]

Where have you found a decent quality metal kusari fundo? All the one's i've used break apart too easily.

As mentioned, I simply made my own. Alternatively there are a few blacksmiths and craftsmen around who will make things like that for you, and the ones I have seen tend to be of high quality (although the tradeoff is that they also tend to be of a relatively high price).

There was a link on MT I recall somewhere which led to a website of one such person. Let me think on it some more and I shall see if I can remember where exactly I saw the link...

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

dragon forge do custom work. there is a few places like this on the internet. you could get some hexegon bar stock and chain and make it yourself. grip wont be as good. you need weights that taper outward for a better grip. and long enough to hold with 2 fingers at least. 3 fingers is better but less portable. also you may want to experiment with different chain. you should get a number 3 chain that is not to thick. number 2 chain is very easy to carry but doesn't grip the flesh and lock as well on some techniques. just a normal link chain is best. the chain and wieghts have to suit each other. you cant have the chain too light and the wieghts to heavy or the other way around. and you should test it on a hard object so you can control the rebound and also experiment with length of chain.
i recommend you get a few different wieghts and some variety of chain and experiment to find the best combination that suits you. and the kusari fundo should be black not shinny chrome. you can paint them or leave them in boiling oil. its a very personal thing.
its like bo shuriken. its a personal thing. some like the wieght of bo shuriken in the front. some like it more in the center or in the back. depends on what effective range you want it. if you want it heavy and short or long and skinny like a throwing needle. hand grip or not. it will take alot of experimenting to find the best combination. or you could buy some other school design and learn how to use that. depends how far you are willing to go with it.
if you want something to practice with for now just buy a couple of padlocks and chain from hardware store. its more legal to cary a bike chain than a custom made kusari fundo. the padlock may hurt your hand a little and you wont have the but end of the wieghts. so it is only good at swinging. it will keep someone attacking you with a knife or a stray dog at distance plus you can also lock your bike

 

[Indagator]

if you want something to practice with for now just buy a couple of padlocks and chain from hardware store. its more legal to cary a bike chain than a custom made kusari fundo. the padlock may hurt your hand a little and you wont have the but end of the wieghts. so it is only good at swinging. it will keep someone attacking you with a knife or a stray dog at distance plus you can also lock your bike

Just be careful with that though, as it is important to be aware that "smileys" are known as a weapon favoured by gang members in certain areas - if you are seen with one or found carrying one it could present you in a negative light or give people a certain impression abuot you because of its reputation.

 

[Chris Parker]

Agreed. Frankly, if I hear of students carrying weapons around (especially something purposely created like that), then it's safe to say that that student's time with me will be coming to an end rather abruptly.

Besides that, creating an approximation which is really not that close (in feel, balance, weight etc) to the actual training tool serves no purpose whatsoever. I personally discourage such things completely.

This is me being subtle, by the way.

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

I did not mean that i carry ?smileys" around. am part of a gang or go terrorising people on the street with kusari fundo. If I did I would not be here today but in prison or something. just because this weapon has a bad reputation doesn't mean nothing. I study ninjutsu not illegal activity. i also study other things in the privacy of my own home. i have never been involved in crime. i have never hurt anyone. what i do at home has nothing to do with my ninjutsu school. I didn't think i would have to say this but it seems so. do you really think im that stupid to carry illegal weapon on the street? do you really think i am a criminal and a member of a gang because i show interest in kusari fundo?

 

[Indagator]

Whoa, sorry. I think I have given you the wrong impression about what I am saying here. I don't believe you to be a criminal or gang member - what I am saying is that it pays to be aware of how you are seen in the public eye. In my experience with ninjutsu this has been a constant theme within our training.
All I was saying was that one must be aware of the stigma attached to a "smiley" as if anybody inadvertently sees it or sees you with it they may get the wrong impression about you. This impression could potentially cause difficulties later on.

Also if, for whatever reason, you need to deal with law enforcement in the future or present, martial arts weapons are one thing and are easily explained but something like that gives a whole different impression.

Sorry I was unclear, buddy.

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

thats alright Indagator. its my fault i should know better than to talk about that here.
and im very sorry sensei. I don't want some stupid thing I said on this forum to result in being asked to leave. thus i will not talk about anything related to kusari fundo. I only wish to learn nimpo taijutsu. please forgive my arrogance sensei. i won't talk about that again.

 

[Chris Parker]

Don't worry about it, if you were in danger of something like that it would be handled privately. My post was not just directed towards you. But if you are actually interested in such a weapon (it is fun, after all!), it's better to use the right equipment, rather than a poor substitute. Feel free to discuss this with me whenever you want.

 

[poryu]

HI

I used a range of Masaki Ryu kata for class. What there are is a series of principles, concepts, and actions gleaned from Masaki Ryu

Chris based on this statement by yourself, I would like to ask, what experience you actually have in Masaki Ryu and when you studied it. It looks from the way that you wrote this that you have actually studied the Ryu and also have permission to teach it. Is this correct

 

[Chris Parker]

Then you misread things, Paul.