Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?
- Thread starter Markku P
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miguksaram
Master of Arts
I would agree...Any good business, should know of supply and demand. If you focus on just one small aspect of TKD and then suddenly it is gone then you have done both yourself and your students a disservice. KKW TKD is so much more than just Olympic sparring.
I hope that doesn't happen. While I feel that Olympic TKD definitely needs to work on its image to clean up the black eye it has caused itself, I also feel we need to get martial arts out to the public more. If not, all the mainstream public will have to judge martial arts on is UFC and occasional ESPN2 of ISKA US Open.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
I wouldn't have mind the dinners so much but they were, for the most part, all western dishes. I really didn't fly 6000 miles to have a hotel steak.ha.ha.ha. However, that was a very small thing and definitely did not ruin the trip. The upside to the dinners was sitting at the table with people from other countries shooting the breeze about TKD, family, and other activities. One of my favorite was GM Park from, I believe, South Africa. His student was at my table and he came over to sit and drink with us. He said the GM table were too old and stuffy and too serious and he just wanted to have a good meal and drink. ha.ha.ha
As for the broth, to be honest, you may come close but will never quite make it. A lot of those mom and pop restaurants always have some sort of ingredient that never disclose.
It is why they are always so popular and busy.Exactly. During that time you felt the world get smaller because you discovered so much commonality, besides TKD, amongst the people there.
You missed a fun time with the live octopus. They place is known for taking pictures of their customers and putting it on their wall. Naturally they took a picture of our table. The best part for me is that the place that we went to is also the place the my brothers & sister-in-laws frequent. They recognized me from before (they don't get a lot of foreigners in the shop). When my sister-in-law came a few weeks later, she got the picture from them and sent it to me. It was good times indeed.I was invited but declined to go to that.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
to someone NOT in tkd already, here is what the matches look like: bounce bounce bounce, flurry, someone falls over, reset. bounce bounce bounce bounce flurry fall over reset...........BORING, if it was exciting, it would have been on tv.
how about THIS:
add forms and breaking.
even better:
open it to ALL martial arts and call it: combat sports
3 divisions:
breaking
kata (picked from a list of bb level katas from the various styles traditional kata only, no made up x games crap)
sparring(basic sparring rules, 1 pt for hands and 2 for kicks, take downs allowed but must include a follow up finishing move).
everyone has to compete in all three, highest combined score wins.
how about THIS:
add forms and breaking.
even better:
open it to ALL martial arts and call it: combat sports
3 divisions:
breaking
kata (picked from a list of bb level katas from the various styles traditional kata only, no made up x games crap)
sparring(basic sparring rules, 1 pt for hands and 2 for kicks, take downs allowed but must include a follow up finishing move).
everyone has to compete in all three, highest combined score wins.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Same can be same for most combat sports. Sometimes you get some really great matches and sometimes you get matches that make you want Sesame Street instead because the Cookie Monster shows more aggression.
I would love to see this. I would like to see in the Kata three different divisions, Traditional, Creative and Extreme. Why we are at it let's do weapons kata as well. This would make for some great TV sports as opposed to Poker.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Just as a side note, the US Open Hanmadang does do most of this already, outside of no fighting.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
kkw may be more, than just olympic style sparring, but the wtf isnt.
it has geared itself to ONE set of rules to the point where it cant do anything else, and from what I have read and been told by all you kkw/wtf types, the two bodies are totally intertwined.
true, i am of the opinion that the UFC caused more dammage to martial arts than any single thing in history.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
I would actually say that the UTF did a lot of damage, more than the UFC itself, though the UFC is responsible for the UTF. Only because it showed a bunch a guys doing nothing getting drunk and then wanting to fight each other. I know it is reality tv and that sells, it just sends a negative image to the general public about martial arts and it participants. Now we have the other side of the extreme...we went from 5 year old BB's to 20-40 year old neanderthal type fighters as being depicted on UTF.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
you mean The Ultimate Fighter tv show?
andyjeffries
Senior Master
I saw her on TV and I think she was very good, little shy perhaps
She's only a kid, she'll get louder as she grows up I'm sure ;-)
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Wow, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? Why would you label anyone that takes their training seriously with a focus on SD as a 'nut'. I find that offensive and insulting and completely uncalled for in this discussion. I suggest you reread my post and try to understand it in the light and context that it was offered.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
DOH!!!...I'm very assbackwards today...meant TUF.ha.ha.ha. Yes, the The Ultimate Fighter.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
yeah, that show is like watchign a toilet fill up before it gets flushed.
crap from start to finish
crap from start to finish
andyjeffries
Senior Master
LOL! No, "nut" in normal English usage (as opposed to American usage) means enthusiast rather than crazy person...
:-D
While there may be political undertones determining the fate of Taekwondo as an Olympic sport, it could also be true that these people are self important blowhards and their opinion of anything doesn't matter to anyone else but each other and they have absolutely no bearing on the outcome. They hate each other. always have, always will. check. On the other hand, like all other sports that have faced the Olympic hatchet, the decision could be based on nothing more than what some others here have stated. The sport does not translate well on TV, nor does it portray the image that the Olympics Committee is looking for. I've heard all these reasons and really couldn't tell you which one is true. On a more ominous note, some would not only imply that the very foundations of the Kukkiwon are at stake but nothing short of the security of the free world as we know it could crumble. *shudder*. Sorry, I'm not buying it, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
On a lighter note, I would agree with some other comments stated previously. While I enjoyed my own days of competition and really enjoy watching live matches, like many sports, it doesn't translate well to the tube which is the vehicle for the much larger audience. Watching world class athletes do their thing in person is always very exciting. I do like the idea that was presented earlier about combining sparring combined with breaking and forms. I know I always enjoyed competing in all three. Why not demonstrate a more expanded skill set? I had never thought of it before, but it does have a certain appeal. Sort of a Taekwondo triathlete.
On a lighter note, I would agree with some other comments stated previously. While I enjoyed my own days of competition and really enjoy watching live matches, like many sports, it doesn't translate well to the tube which is the vehicle for the much larger audience. Watching world class athletes do their thing in person is always very exciting. I do like the idea that was presented earlier about combining sparring combined with breaking and forms. I know I always enjoyed competing in all three. Why not demonstrate a more expanded skill set? I had never thought of it before, but it does have a certain appeal. Sort of a Taekwondo triathlete.
Yep, that's so, my husband is a Landrover nut, loves green laneing. 'Nutcase' would be the perjorative version.
My opinion is that if the TKDists of Team GB win lots of medals at the Olympics it must stay in, if we don't win anything chuck it out!
Sports that have been kicked out of the Olympics. http://www.olympic.org/content/the-ioc/commissions/olympic-programme/past-olympic-sports/
| Baseball Cricket Croquet Golf Jeu de paume Lacrosse | Pelote basque Polo Power boating Rackets Rink-hockey | Roque Rugby Softball Tug of war Water skiing |
It means the same thing in the US. For example, "health nut".
I don't know if it would shake the foundations of the kukkiwon, but losing Olympic status certainly is not a good thing for Taekwondo.
On how the decision will be made, GM Bill Sullivan explained it much better than I can:
*
In its effort to modernize the games, in 2002 the IOC voted to limit the
Summer Olympic Programme to 28 sports, 301 events, and 10,500 athletes.
The IOC assigned the Olympic Programme Commission (OPC) the task of
developing a tool to evaluate each official medal sport and the sports
short-listed for official medal status on a quadrennial basis. In 2004,
the IOC approved the OPC proposal to evaluate each sport in the
following seven categories: history and tradition, universality,
popularity, image and environment, athlete welfare, development, and
cost. Within the seven categories, there are approximately numerical 100
variables organized in 33 subdivisions (the OPC calls these subdivisions
"criteria"). The two categories with the largest number of numerical
variables are universality (40 variables) and popularity (27 variables).
That is, these two categories comprise almost 2/3 of the numerical data
points. The other five categories include approximately 27 numerical
variables.
The first OPC report included data from the 2000 Summer Olympic Games
through the 2004 games. In addition to the numerical data points, the
2005 OPC report included an evaluative critique of each sport. For
example, the report criticized the questionable judging in taekwondo
competition and the low level of popularity of taekwondo. The 2009
report included data from the 2004 games through the 2008 games. The
2009 report did not include an evaluative critique of the sports, but
did include factual statements for each sport (e.g., it described the
taekwondo international referee training program). While the 2005 report
included baseball and softball, the 2009 report did not, even though
they were official medal sports in 2008.
In an exhaustive search of the literature, I found no comparative
evaluation of the numerical data among the sports. Unless the IOC has a
classified internal document, mine will be the first to compare the data
among the sports. My graduate research assistant and I have analyzed the
change in scores for all the sports from the 2005 to the 209 OPC report.
In total, we have approximately 7300 data points.
I have sent two abstracts of results on all 28/26 sports to the
organizers of the pre-Olympic sports conference in Glasgow, Scotland in
July with the expectation that I will present my data there. So I won't
share the results with you at this time. I will say that taekwondo was
not in bad shape in the 2009 report. But the next OPC report is due out
in 2013.
If I were a leader of an international federation affiliated with the
IOC, in addition to being a good politician within the IOC, I would do
all that I could to improve my sport's scores in the variables used in
the OPC report. Weeks after the 2005 report was accepted, baseball and
softball lost their official medal status. (Baseball and softball are
now in discussions about a merger with the hopes that their gender
universality scores will increase.) Weeks after the 2009 report, golf
and rugby were approved for official medal status as of 2016. Readers of
this blog know that both karate and wushu are short-listed sports for
the Summer Olympic Programme. Nothing is permanent.
*
The things you raise (port does not translate well on TV, nor does it portray the image that the Olympics Committee is looking for) maybe one or two of the approximately 100 variables the IOC is looking at. But the final decision comes in the form of a vote of IOC members.
One or two? Really? According to your document, not all categories are created equal.
"The two categories with the largest number of numerical variables are universality (40 variables) and popularity (27 variables).
That is, these two categories comprise almost 2/3 of the numerical data points"
I'm willing to bet the two I identified carry substantial weight. I'd like to see the 100+ variables and specifically, what kind of weight they pull. I wonder where "Political Undermining" came in? Sorry, rhetorical question.
BTW, thanks for posting that though. Good information!
"The two categories with the largest number of numerical variables are universality (40 variables) and popularity (27 variables).
That is, these two categories comprise almost 2/3 of the numerical data points"
I'm willing to bet the two I identified carry substantial weight. I'd like to see the 100+ variables and specifically, what kind of weight they pull. I wonder where "Political Undermining" came in? Sorry, rhetorical question.
BTW, thanks for posting that though. Good information!
The thought processes of the IOC are convoluted at the best of times, I'm a big fan as are many Europeans of ski jumping, at the last Winter Olympics they wouldn't allow women to compete at this despite their rule of sports being open to men and women. Women's boxing is being allowed this year for the first time though. From what I've heard they are looking to put eventing and dressage out as they are seen as 'elitest' sports available only to the 'rich'. Not showjumping though because that's deemed popular. Perhaps, as with the boxing medals for money scandal, it's the sport that can pay the IOC officials the most that will stay in.
