Taekwondo isn't from Karate, it's from Korean Gwonbub that existed for 300 years

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Steven Lee, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Except - They did. You are wrong.<<<<<[/QUOTE]
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  2. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Except - They did. You are wrong.<<<<<[/QUOTE]
    Nothing. Meant to hit agree, as you well know...sorry!
     
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  3. Ivan

    Ivan Yellow Belt

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    Can you post a link of your sources? TKD has quite clearly been proven, as stated in JAMA (the Journal of Asian Martial Arts) that it was created somewhere around the 1950s.
     
  4. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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  5. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    Yes and no.

    In 1910, Japan invaded Korea and held it until the end of WW2. During that time, they made a concerted effort to kill off anyone they thought might put up a fight, and that included a lot of the traditional Korean martial arts guys. Some of them hid out in the mountains and kept their art alive.

    After the Korean conflict, When S. Korea was looking to create a national sport, they got all the survivor (what few were left) plus people who were trained in Shotokan and other Japanese styles and tried to do a "melting pot" sort of thing. That was the origin of Taekwondo.

    So, yes. It has origins in karate. But also, yes, it has origins in the traditional Korean martial arts that trace back to the Silla dynasty, almost a thousand years ago.
     
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  6. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    I don't think that is accurate.

    The founders of the original Kwans began teaching karate and Kung fu. Later they would unify under TKD and placed more emphasis on kicks due to the Korean History of Kick emphasized Korean Arts that were lost during Japan's occupation.
     
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  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    None of the founders claim to have been trained in these extinct arts. Yes, some of them made claims to a connection to those arts, but none of them claimed to have been trained in them. And they stopped making the claim because it was patently silly.
     
  8. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    It was still around. Mas Oyama claimed to have trained in it at an early age. Whether he actually did or not, we only have his word for it. Was it organized? No, Oyama claimed that he learned it from a farmer.

    Still in all, the old Korean arts of Gwonbeop, Subak, et al. do feature in the history of Taekwondo.
     
  9. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes. As history. Not as actual arts.
     
  10. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    As I posted earlier in this thread. Mas Oyama trained in Chinese Kempo when he was a child and then obtained a 2nd degree blackbelt in karate by age 18. The word, "gwonbeop" is the korean rendition for kung fu, it was NOT an ancient korean art. So, when Oyama states that he trained in "gwonbeop" as a child, he was saying that he trained in kung fu. We know Oyama's training history and it has been well-documented, there have been NO sources that state he ever trained in a Korean martial art, just a quote written in Korean taken out of context to justify a postion. Even Oyama NEVER said that he trained in a Korean martial art, he ALWAYS stated that he learned Chinese Kempo as a child and then karate (in reference to the striking arts, I also believe he studied Judo at some point).
     
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  11. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Several sources say Oyama was a 4th dan in Kodokan Judo. I haven’t seen much specific about his training, teachers, classmates, accolades, etc. though; it’s usually not much more than a mention about his rank.

    What little I have read about his Judo experience was he quickly rose in rank due to his success in competition. But I don’t see any mention of any specific competitions nor opponents. Odd. There’s probably some specific stuff written somewhere out there, but I haven’t come across it. I’m not an Oyama historian, but I’ve read a bit more than the average bear.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    @drop bear + @Ironbear24 / 2 = averagebear?

    We need a new member to sign up with that username.
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    images.jpg
     
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  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Don't get him started again
     
  15. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master Black Belt

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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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  17. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    Then I stand corrected. Thank you.
     
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  18. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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  19. msmitht

    msmitht 2nd Black Belt

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    My late GM, Baek Moon Ku, was a student of the mudukwan under Hwang Kee. He said their forms were that of shotokan and kung fu. When he found himself at the 1st military base to teach taekwondo he was an instructor along with many others. He said they taught the new curriculum (ITF) the old way. He said there was Tae Kyon in a few rural villages when he left Korea in late 50's. He said that basically everything was based on judo, karate, kung fu or daitio ryu aiki jujitsu and given a different name.
    The real changes from the old ways came with the introduction of the sparring rules that allowed for full contact kicking but that's another story.
     

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