Tactical Flashlight

[CB Jones]

I think the risk of being disarmed is so low that the risk of the fingerloop being harmful is essentially immaterial. I wouldn't drive my car I was worried about probabilities that low.

Then like Juany we will agree to disagree.

I have seen too many use of force encounters where as soon as the officer struck the attacker with his flashlight/or other tool and all the attackers attention going straight to the flashlight and on taking it away.

Would rather be able to just release and take the guy right down instead of fighting to retain it.

 

[CB Jones]

Instead of a finger ring I would rather removable strike bevels on both ends.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Although I'm not a fan of the finger ring I still see the importance of attaining weapon retention skills regardless of the weapon. But one thing about that finger ring is that the overall size and length of the flashlight held by a moving and tightly clenched fist (in addition to the weapon retention abilities mentioned) make it a very unnecessary and immaterial feature. Not to mention there will be circumstances where retaining the weapon would be the best thing to and other times when dropping that weapon would be the best thing to do. That finger ring would make it almost impossible to do so.

Now that I think about it I actually change my opinion on the possible usefulness of a lanyard for this very reason.

 

[drop bear]

Instead of a finger ring I would rather removable strike bevels on both ends.

See. Not a fan of the bevels. I would have put rubberized ends on so it works like a sap. Any fight with beveled edges here would be a GBH.

 

[drop bear]

Although I'm not a fan of the finger ring I still see the importance of attaining weapon retention skills regardless of the weapon. But one thing about that finger ring is that the overall size and length of the flashlight held by a moving and tightly clenched fist (in addition to the weapon retention abilities mentioned) make it a very unnecessary and immaterial feature. Not to mention there will be circumstances where retaining the weapon would be the best thing to and other times when dropping that weapon would be the best thing to do. That finger ring would make it almost impossible to do so.

Now that I think about it I actually change my opinion on the possible usefulness of a lanyard for this very reason.

A lanyard could be made to break before it tears your arm off.

 

[Blindside]

Then like Juany we will agree to disagree.

I have seen too many use of force encounters where as soon as the officer struck the attacker with his flashlight/or other tool and all the attackers attention going straight to the flashlight and on taking it away.

Would rather be able to just release and take the guy right down instead of fighting to retain it.

Would I rather the other guy be spending his attention on the flashlight and taking it away or alternately hitting me and trying to pound my head in? I'd rather he spend his time focusing on the flashlight, the advantage goes to me. I am not a fan of the ring either, and I'm pretty certain I am the only person on this thread who has actually handled any version of it, but the reason for my not really liking it has nothing to do with the chance that he will break my finger after he pulls it out of my hand.

 

[Psilent Knight]

the reason for my not really liking it has nothing to do with the chance that he will break my finger after he pulls it out of my hand.

As for me I would be concerned that my finger can possibly get broken during the altercation regardless if the bad guy is trying to take it or not. But I do see your point.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I dislike the word 'tactical' and steer clear of anything so described. A flashlight is a nice thing to have, and it can certainly be used as a weapon, but I don't carry one in my pocket or in a holster.

As with most weapons that are thinly-disguised as tools, it's not fooling law enforcement. If a person has a screwdriver in their pocket and there isn't a repair taking place nearby, it's a burglar tool or a concealed weapon. So too with a 'tactical' flashlight. Nobody is fooled by "Look, it's just a flashlight!"

I agree that the word 'tactical' is simply a buzz word that adds $ to the amount of the light. It turns a $5 Ebay CREE LED flashlight into a $59 'tacticool' flashlight used by the Navy SEALS. For less than $20 you can get a Convoy S2+ with L,M,H, Strobe and SOS for add a few $ and get a Astrolux S1 that has all of that and a few more features. Quite useful as a defensive tool.

As for L.E., doesn't matter whether it 'fools' them or not. It's not classified as a weapon so unless they're using it in the commission of a crime there isn't anything that they can do about it. You can go on a plane,train or boat with one in your pocket just as you could with a Sharpie marker. Both perfectly legal. In fact, I don't go on a cruise ship without one in case of electrical problems below deck (which happens more frequently than you'd think).

A flashlight is a fantastic defensive 'tool' and I recommend them in all of my SD classes.

Flashlight As Part Of Your Best Defense

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As for L.E., doesn't matter whether it 'fools' them or not. It's not classified as a weapon so unless they're using it in the commission of a crime there isn't anything that they can do about it. You can go on a plane,train or boat with one in your pocket just as you could with a Sharpie marker. Both perfectly legal. In fact, I don't go on a cruise ship without one in case of electrical problems below deck (which happens more frequently than you'd think).

A flashlight is a fantastic defensive 'tool' and I recommend them in all of my SD classes.

Flashlight As Part Of Your Best Defense

I disagree. An item is a weapon depending on how it is used and the intent of the user.

A guy with a baseball bat in his back seat might be transporting an illegal weapon, or it might be just a piece of athletic gear. A lot depends on whether he is on his way to a ball game or a riot, er, public protest.

Items aren't classified as weapons or not weapons other than guns and sometimes knives. What makes them weapons is the intent of the user. While it can be hard to prove in court unless you catch them in the act, try showing up at an, er, public protest dressed in black with a face mask and a baseball bat and see if your 'not a weapon' gets confiscated or not. Take a 4 cell mag lite to a concert, see if the cops let you in.

I object to non cops and non lawyers telling idiot consumers that they can carry thus and so because it's 'not a weapon'. Anything can be a weapon in the eyes of the law, and it's been shown in court over and over again. Companies selling tactical flashlights aren't going to go to court to defend you.

 

[Psilent Knight]

AFAIK an item isn't a weapon if it isn't categorically classified as one in state and local laws. In fact, I believe there are three standard categories in most state laws in the US; a) legal weapons, b) illegal weapons and c) instruments of crime. I fail to see how a flashlight (with or without crenulated bezel) can be classified in any of the above mentioned categories, except for c) IF the light is, in fact, purposely used as an instrument of crime.

 

[drop bear]

AFAIK an item isn't a weapon if it isn't categorically classified as one in state and local laws. In fact, I believe there are three standard categories in most state laws in the US; a) legal weapons, b) illegal weapons and c) instruments of crime. I fail to see how a flashlight (with or without crenulated bezel) can be classified in any of the above mentioned categories, except for c) IF the light is, in fact, purposely used as an instrument of crime.

Over here it would effect intent. Which is the difference between manslaughter and murder.

You guys have weird rules on intent. So no idea if it is the same.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I disagree. An item is a weapon depending on how it is used and the intent of the user.

L.E. aren't mind readers so unless they (we) roll up on someone in the act of using a flashlight to attack someone the intent cannot be guessed. A person walking down the street with a flashlight on their person cannot be assumed to have the intent to use it as a weapon.

A guy with a baseball bat in his back seat might be transporting an illegal weapon, or it might be just a piece of athletic gear. A lot depends on whether he is on his way to a ball game or a riot, er, public protest.

A guy with a BB bat in his back seat is simply a guy with a BB bat in his back seat. L.E. can't assume he's on his way to a riot. Thus it's legal and L.E. can't do anything one way or the other.

Items aren't classified as weapons or not weapons other than guns and sometimes knives. What makes them weapons is the intent of the user.

And no one will know that intent unless they are caught using it in the commission of a crime. So, a flashlight makes an excellent tool for anyone to carry. It allows you to find something in the dark, attract attention if needed, light up an area your approaching or as a defensive tool. No rule or law against someone having a BB bat in the back seat or a flashlight in their pocket. And there shouldn't be as this is free country.

And L.E. has to be VERY careful in what they do and don't do and often get themselves jammed up because they're stupid and let the badge go to their head. I say this as a Deputy of 26 years service. As a Deputy, I work for a Sheriff's Office. And Sheriff's Offices are the ONLY Constitutional L.E. agency in the U.S. with all other being set up by statute. Thus it falls to Sheriff's Offices to uphold citizens Constitutional rights above anything. As an example, and to illustrate the point, a large local P.D. arrested a man a couple of years ago. He was in a public county park. He was fishing. He was armed with a side arm that was openly carried. In this state (Florida) a citizen is allowed to openly carry a firearm while engaged in specific activities; camping, hunting, fishing etc. The man had a CCW but was NOT required to have one to openly carry while fishing. An uninformed citizen called the P.D. who responded. I say uninformed because the man was fishing and not openly waving his gun around thus he was within his rights and the citizen should have known this (their ignorance isn't an excuse). Thus no issue. The P.D. arrived and observed the man fishing. They snuck up behind him and tried to disarm him physically. The man almost struck the Officer because in that moment he didn't know it was an Officer. All he knew was that someone was grabbing his gun. He stopped short of popping the Officer when he saw it was an Officer (but would have been justified if he did put an elbow into this Officer's face as the Officer had exceeded his authority and was in fact committing a crime against this man). They cuffed the man and confiscated his openly carried firearm. Further they confiscated a firearm in his P.O.V. and ran the serial numbers (which is illegal and against department policy as there was no P.C. to consider they were stolen or used in the commission of a crime at that specific time). A supervisor found out what was going on and ordered the man released and his weapons returned. The next day the city attorney formally apologized to the man. That P.D. is now facing a law suit for violating this man's Constitutional and State rights and ALL Officer's in the department have to undergo mandatory training. They will likely have to cough up some $ for violating this man's rights.

So to the point, a flashlight isn't classified as a weapon. It cannot be assumed to be a weapon. As such, it is a very useful tool for a person to carry for a multitude of reasons, some of which I've listed above.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Over here it would effect intent. Which is the difference between manslaughter and murder.

You guys have weird rules on intent. So no idea if it is the same.

Yeah, I'm aware of the laws here but it's HOW they are interpreted and applied and WHO is interpreting and applying them as they see fit that really puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm speaking right now from the P.O.V. of a law abiding citizen who insists on his right to defend himself and his family against the sociopaths and scum that are everywhere in this country.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, I'm aware of the laws here but it's HOW they are interpreted and applied and WHO is interpreting and applying them as they see fit that really puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm speaking right now from the P.O.V. of a law abiding citizen who insists on his right to defend himself and his family against the sociopaths and scum that are everywhere in this country.

It depends if you consider your right to defend your family more important that your family.

You can't defend anyone from jail.

 

[Psilent Knight]

It depends if you consider your right to defend your family more important that your family.

You can't defend anyone from jail.

Good Point.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Tactical pen

The 'tactical' pen is also a useful defensive tool. Many have a glass breaker tip so it's useful in and accident for rescue purposes. Stay away from the 'tacticool' pens that are free but have a ridiculous S&H fee. You can get a good pen on Ebay for $2. I bought three and they actually had good ink.

Very useful and as with a flashlight and Sharpie they are legal to have in your pocket.

 

[Psilent Knight]

@Juany118 may I ask you a personal question? Are you in anyway involved with or connected to The Ultimate Knife group who market the Strobeforce D-TAC 1000?

 

[Psilent Knight]

I had asked earlier in the thread which would everyone rather have between a pocket clip or a lanyard on their tactical flashlight (pocket clip for me btw). But I have a different question which I think is often debated.......

Strobe vs High output mode. Which do you prefer and would rather have?

I personally prefer the high output function on my flashlight and don't bother with the strobe function.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Pocket clip for me, or holster.

For defensive use I have mine set on strobe for a couple of reasons: First, not only does it hurt like high intensity (which strobe is usually the highest lumen setting) but I think it can also be disorientating. Second, strobe is more likely to attract attention in a dark setting. In a SD situation I want to attract as much attention as possible.

On a side note, some folks don't like flashlights with 'blinky' functions such as SOS, strobe, beacon, bike flasher etc. Personally, I'll take as many as I can get. From a survival/emergency preparedness perspective it could save your life. I talked with one guy who said if he had to he'd simply tap out SOS with the switch. Not the best option. An SOS option (or any blinky function) may have to operate for hours before it attracts attention/rescue. Tapping it out for hours isn't the best use of time, energy or resources. Plus if you're injured/sick or tending to someone injured/sick you don't have the time to sit there and tap it out over and over. With a blinky function you click it, set it and tend to other matters. Not everyone knows what SOS is these days (three long, three short, three long, three short etc) but blinky functions are normally at the highest lumen output and attract attention with the repetitiveness.

From that perspective my favorites are the Convoy S2+, Astrolux S1, BLF A6, Nitecore SRT3 and the Nitecore EA11. Instant access to whatever mode you prefer and memory.

 

[Juany118]

@Juany118 may I ask you a personal question? Are you in anyway involved with or connected to The Ultimate Knife group who market the Strobeforce D-TAC 1000?

Nope just a cop on the down hill to 50 who over the last couple years finally stopped saying "all I need are my hands, gun and baton" because I realized while I keep getting older "they keep getting younger." So I did research. The reason I landed on this one was...
1. I liked the research I saw on the potential effect of strobes and this light starts on strobe.
2. Reasonably priced compared to say Stream light or Surefire.
3. I was already accustomed to the ring feature as my EDC folder has one.