Systema vs. Kenpo (yeah right.)

[WilliamTLear]

Doug,

Systema is an over emphasis of a principle in Kenpo called relaxation. And while it is a pretty neat system to play around with, it is already covered in the Kenpo System.

I played around with Martin Wheeler at Huk and Gil's Birthday bash, this last year where he exposed me to the SYSTEMA.

Systema can be consdered a part of Kenpo, but Kenpo is a stand alone art. Anyone that wants to debate me on this can read Infinite Insight Volume 4, Chapter 7, Page 148, Line # 3.

Dude, if you go over to systema your short changing yourself!

Your Friend,
Billy Lear :2xbird:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Oh Billy.......... You are so Harsh!

:fart:

 

[jaybacca72]

billy my friend your way off target on this one for sure and i will debate you no problem.1st yes kenpo does do relaxation techniques or principles but it is not systema 2nd martin is good but nowhere near a vladimir in skill or experience ,no offense to martin,3rd just because ed parker said it doesn't make it gospel he was after all just a man with ideas to share not a god as some percieve him to be.
later
jay

 

[WilliamTLear]

First...

I'm not real big on quoting Ed Parker song and verse. He isn't a god, just a great man. (I think I've written that several times in alot of places) But, the definition that I outlined for (RELAXATION) does pretty much sum up the base of the Systema system.

Second...

You might be right about Martin, but I think he is really good at what he does. I enjoyed working out with him, and I think that systema is a hoot, it's just not as effective as kenpo.

Third...

The major premise for systema is flexibility and relaxation... sure it contains body maneuvers, etc... but Kenpo teaches all the same stuff, plus more. RELAX JAY. You're getting a little tense.

Why does Gou not like Kenpo that much anymore? Probably because the majority of Kenpo Schools in Canada have major problems (alot like Pasadena). Although, he speaks very highly of you. I think that cross training isn't bad but giving up on something you like is. (Especially for the reasons outlined above.)

Billy "Not an Arm-Chair Kenpoist" Lear :snipe2:

 

[arnisador]

Can you expand on what this term means in kenpo?

 

[donald]

Mr.Lear/Mr.Jaybaca,
Okay I'll bite! What is systema? I don't believe I've ever heard of it before? Is this a kenpo offshoot? Where did it come from?
Salute in Christ,
Mainly Arm Chair Lately:shrug:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
But, the definition that I outlined for (RELAXATION) does pretty much sum up the base of the Systema system.

I think there is much more to it than that. In fact I would classify Systema as full complete system on it's own. But that would be me. I think you really have to experience it from Vlad and how he runs it.

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
I think that systema is a hoot, it's just not as effective as kenpo

I'd have to disagree with that. In fact I think it is as effective in many ways. Both are much more similar than people think. Again, it is something that can be very specific to a person. A person may be very good at Kenpo but find Systema much more usful for them due to body type, size, etc. The same is true Vice Versa.

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
The major premise for systema is flexibility and relaxation... sure it contains body maneuvers, etc... but Kenpo teaches all the same stuff, plus more.

I think both arts are very deep in what they offer. Kenpo is more regimented with it's structure. I'd have to say that there is more than you might think for the major premises.

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
Why does Gou not like Kenpo that much anymore?

I never said I did not like Kenpo. I like Kenpo. Who says I won't be playing around with it? I just want to spend some time doing something that I am finding facinating. If I was doing Shotokan and bumped into Ed Parker, would I be silly to want to train with him in Kenpo? Either way I train with Jaybacca because we're friends so I'm sure he'll be laying the Kenpo Smackdown.

However, it brings up an interesting mental excercise in thought. All these people who claim they have "Kenpo brothers and sisters" I will have to ask them this. If someone no longer studies an art are they still your "brothers & sisters?

 

[WilliamTLear]

Well, your gunna need to jump of the fence sometime...

As far as the Brother Comment goes... Is that B.S. aimed at me?

Billy
:redeme:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
Well, your gunna need to jump of the fence sometime...
As far as the Brother Comment goes... Is that B.S. aimed at me?

Hell no. It's aimed at those people who indescriminatly use the term like it's water. I still see you as a bro no matter what I do. The difference is that I don't need the excuse of a martial art to do so. Why? Because I choose my friends based on the quality of WHO THEY ARE and not because they do an an art.

As far as jumping off the fence? Well, just think of me as the dog lurking in the bushes...I'm not far away...

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by donald
Mr.Lear/Mr.Jaybaca,
Okay I'll bite! What is systema? I don't believe I've ever heard of it before? Is this a kenpo offshoot? Where did it come from?
Salute in Christ,
Mainly Arm Chair Lately:shrug:

Donald,

Systema is a Russian martial art. It's premis is relaxation (to maintan speed, flexibility, power in striking, and absorb strikes). The cirriculum includes... Slips, dives, rolls, feints, fades, graqppling, and various other body maneuvers. It reminds me alot of Jackie Chan (LOL). To sum it up in a nutt-shell it's alot of fun to play with (and it has alot of applications when it comes to combining it with Kenpo), but the weapons defenses, etc... are kinda weak from what I've seen. (Just my opinion) .

Hope this helps,
Billy Lear :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

I want to watch Gou get his little butt tossed all around the gym ......... now that would be entertaining!

Hang in there Douggie and have fun~!

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
Systema is a Russian martial art. It's premis is relaxation (to maintan speed, flexibility, power in striking, and absorb strikes). The cirriculum includes... Slips, dives, rolls, feints, fades, graqppling, and various other body maneuvers. It reminds me alot of Jackie Chan (LOL). To sum it up in a nutt-shell it's alot of fun to play with (and it has alot of applications when it comes to combining it with Kenpo), but the weapons defenses, etc... are kinda weak from what I've seen. (Just my opinion) .

Actually, that's like me saying that American kenpo is really only about the forms. It's not. It's one aspect of the art. There is a premis of relaxation. But it's not the ONLY one. Much like Kenpo, there are aspects to it.

I would say that the weapons defences are actually more developed than Kenpo. There are numerous videos Vlad has teaching self defence from weapons using anything from a book to pencils.

Dude, you really have to see Vlad. It'll change your outlook on the art.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I want to watch Gou get his little butt tossed all around the gym ......... now that would be entertaining!

I'm always having fun. And yes, last week I was thrown on top of my head and I have the bruises from the fingertips of Vlad to prove it along with the video of me saving my skull with a great breakfall. (Thanx Judo!)

It's hilarious. One moment I am standing there and honestly it looks like springs shoot out of my feet and I'm a few feet in the air and landing in the same spot. I had a precise bruise where he flipped me using only his thumb and 2 fingers.

I am currently destroying the video evidence.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Hey, I wanted to see that!!!!

:rpo:

 

[GouRonin]

Soon...soon....soon you will ALLLLLLLL join me... heh heh heh...

 

[WilliamTLear]

I will NEVER join you!!!

:jedi1:

Billy "I am a Jedi Knight. The force is strong within me..." Lear

 

[GouRonin]

**bark bark bark**

((CHOMP))

 

[WilliamTLear]

:jediduel:

 

[GouRonin]

Heaven's no. I just smile and I just wait till you turn your back before I bash you with a tire iron.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well you are both gonna get it..... when I unveil my newest aspect of the IKKO.

KenpoStema......

I'll get you guys!