Systema a discussion

Discussion in 'Russian Martial Arts' started by Gweilo, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. dunc

    dunc Green Belt

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    Hi

    So I just watched all the clips and sharing my views on them

    1. Vlad
    I think he’s a talented martial artist and some of the principles illustrates (eg redirecting strikes into disruptive directions) are totally valid and quite interesting
    However, for me this clip falls into the Jedi mind trick category and it’s bonkers to believe that waiving your arm around will cause someone to fall over
    It’s also really, really easy to test. Just try it with anyone not training in Systema. Or even see if you can manipulate someone without contact outside of the martial arts context

    2. Ryo
    The first 30 seconds was more on the practical end of the scale, but his attacker was over responding to the manipulations
    I liked the principle he was showing to make a sudden movement just as the attacker commits in order to disrupt their “game plan”
    However, I really hope no one here genuinely believes that you can deal with an assault by rooting your feet 6inches apart and either bending your knees or waiving your arms around to make your attacker fall over or utterly give up on their attack

    3. Brian
    Some of the principles shown to receive strikes & redirect your opponent into a strike of your own are great
    I also like the way that the participants receive strikes, albeit they are grossly over compensating
    However, this is a good example of participants moving in different speeds during slow training. The attacker is slowly approaching with an outstretched arm and the defender moves much quicker when delivering strikes
    The defender is overreacting to fairly light strikes and unnecessarily compromising their structure at each stage. This allows the faster moving defender to deliver a sequence of pretty ineffective strikes that result in the attacker tying themselves up
    It’s a very different dynamic when both people move in the same time zone and you need to generate a material amount of power to force your opponent to compromise their structure

    I feel that many of the principles in Systema are valid and the style has some interesting and useful characteristics, but the most commonly used training method seems to direct people in an increasingly self deluded direction

    I feel that this is a problem in all martial arts to some extent. There is a spectrum and I’m sure that there are people in styles on the far end of this spectrum who have found ways to counter this natural dynamic in martial arts
     
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  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Pmsl?
     
  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    Peed myself laughing
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    Pmsl means ,,I laughed so much I lost control of my bladder, your not down with the kids are you
     
  5. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    Unfortunately this is common in Systema videos, and it does the art no favours, neither does the BS non touching stuff, but thank you for your response.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Bah, these whippersnappers and their texting and interwebs!
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. You need to jump on a punch machine. See if the data adds up.
     
  8. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    This maybe of interest to those wishing to understand a bit about how we strike in systema

     
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  9. garik

    garik White Belt

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  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Funnily enough this vlad guy is doing a seminar in jersey today. Where I'm on holiday right now. Apparently first time out of Russia. They said you could come in and watch with no charge so I poked my head in and watched for a bit...all I can say is it's not making me rush home and sign up for systema
     
  11. garik

    garik White Belt

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    Soviet Kompleks Spezialnie Upraschnenie N.1 from the Close Combat Methodology 1981 of the Soviet Army, chapter "Special close combat training".

    [​IMG]






     
  12. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    Vladimir Vasiliev has lived in Toronto Canada for over 20 years, so it won't be him, if it was the 1st time out of Russia.
     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Whatever either way it's a vert high ranking guy and yeah wasn't impressed I'm afraid
     
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  14. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    The gentleman in The Channel Islands was Victor Tarasov, and at least you had a look, and decided you didn’t like it.
     
  15. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    I have never trained with Mr Tarasov so could not comment on his teaching methods, I have heard from people who have trained with him, and been told, he likes ground movement, Kossack swords and whips, and his style of Systema is heavily influenced by his Aikido, but these are rumours.
     
  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Found this photo on Facebook from the seminar...not a smart idea what he's doing waving around swords right by a children's park

    image.jpeg
     
  17. Gweilo

    Gweilo Green Belt

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    I agree, but from where he is from in Russia it would be acceptable, it does the art no favours, I also have been told a class in England was taken outside to train last year in the hot spell we had, and the class was in a local park, the lesson was on knife defense, and was halted half way through by armed police. The person who told me attended that class. Just pure stupidity, and again makes the art look bad.
     
  18. Arthur

    Arthur Blue Belt

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    I think somewhere in the last 2 decades Systema has become a term that is in a way as ubiquitous as "Kung Fu". And at this point is probably not productive to judge, interpret, whatever, Systema by any given practitioners performance. Good, great, bad or horrible. You know? I mean it would be ridiculous if we were making decisions about what Kung Fu is by watching one or two guys performing what they call Kung Fu. Well... my thought anyway.

    Arthur
     
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