super free sparring

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
127
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
What I am going to tell you is nothing new but for me cleaver. In dojang we do two types of kyorugy, medio combate (light sparring) and combate libre (full sparring), both of these using the WTF rule set book, you know no kicks below the waist no punches to the face/head area, etc,etc,
I've been thinking abou doing a form of kyorugi a little diferent and it's called SUPER LIBRE or super free sparring, here the rules change a little bit, in super libre the people can kick above the belt and can punch even to the face/head in a controled way, the fighters can even do sweeps and take downs and if wanted inmovilizate the oponent for no more than 3 secons, I am not encourage graping or some kind of valtudo or MMA, just for example grab the leg sweep the other and in the floor conuter or involizate with some kind of kesa gatame for example. I have to work in the rule set guidelines but I think SUPER LIBRE can be a very fluid kind of sparring, the fight will be continuos.

El Manny
 

TrueJim

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
373
Location
Virginia
Sounds interesting! Along those same lines...

I read once that some taekkyon schools practice 5-on-5 sparring? I've always thought it would be interesting to see many-on-many sparring...but if I were to try to organize something like that myself I'd stick with 3-on-3...that sounds more manageable to me.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
There are versions of it. It is a good idea.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
926
Years ago we were with a group (AKA I Think) and it allowed groin shots and takedowns with 3 seconds to strike on the ground and then return to the feet.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
Super Libre sounds like a superhero or wrestler name to me, hehehe. But I like your idea. I've done sparring like that in Hapkido, and it's fun and more realistic than WTF sparring.

Just so you know, if you (or your teacher!) are worried about people getting hurt doing face punches, you can buy plastic face guards that attach to TKD helmets. They work pretty well for light-to-medium contact punches.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,363
Reaction score
9,102
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Manny, the rule set you're describing sounds an awful lot like the sparring I recall from the Old Days. Look at old PKA fights...
 

Mephisto

Black Belt
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
594
Reaction score
236
Super Libre sounds like a superhero or wrestler name to me, hehehe. But I like your idea. I've done sparring like that in Hapkido, and it's fun and more realistic than WTF sparring.

Just so you know, if you (or your teacher!) are worried about people getting hurt doing face punches, you can buy plastic face guards that attach to TKD helmets. They work pretty well for light-to-medium contact punches.
I think a decent boxing style head gear is a better option. On some padding covers the cheeks and leaves little room for actual contact, with boxing gloves it's even safer because the gloves won't get through the cheek protection so hard shots to the nose are safer. Of course individual anatomy varies. The face shields offer a little too much protection imo, they also can fog up, which is an annoying interruption. With a boxing head gear there's a little more risk which is motivation to not get hit. But if you're throwing elbows a face shield is a good idea, a good option is a boxing head gear with the plastic face cage.


As for the rules of the op. I think these are the kind of rule changes that could redeem tkd as a formidable firm if combat. I'd include leg kicks as well. Tkd has a pretty bad rep in the US, and the quality control is pretty bad. part of this is due to its popularity, an art as big as tkd is gonna include more people that just aren't fighters which opens up the door for low quality. A tkd competition circuit with rules more applicable to reality and other forms of fighting could bring forward a really solid system within a couple of generations of competition.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
I think a decent boxing style head gear is a better option. On some padding covers the cheeks and leaves little room for actual contact, with boxing gloves it's even safer because the gloves won't get through the cheek protection so hard shots to the nose are safer. Of course individual anatomy varies. The face shields offer a little too much protection imo, they also can fog up, which is an annoying interruption. With a boxing head gear there's a little more risk which is motivation to not get hit. But if you're throwing elbows a face shield is a good idea, a good option is a boxing head gear with the plastic face cage..

Boxing gear would probably be better, but if you've already got TKD sparring gear, adding a face shield to the gear you already have is cheaper/easier than buying all new gear.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,961
Reaction score
5,853
Boxing gear would probably be better, but if you've already got TKD sparring gear, adding a face shield to the gear you already have is cheaper/easier than buying all new gear.
Don't get the face gear. Not having it will remind the person how important it is to protect the head lol. As much as really wish I had the head gear that protects my face, I know that having it will cause me to do things that I would not normally do and I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing.
 

mninja

White Belt
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
Location
California
Sparring is perhaps my favorite part of training. I would like to look more into the technique and better reactions. Anyone have a good tutorial or resource?
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
Sparring is perhaps my favorite part of training. I would like to look more into the technique and better reactions. Anyone have a good tutorial or resource?

For sparring you would probably have to speak to an expert. It is increadably complicated and changes with the individual.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,961
Reaction score
5,853
Sparring is perhaps my favorite part of training. I would like to look more into the technique and better reactions. Anyone have a good tutorial or resource?
You'll be limited on how much you can learn with techniques through a tutorial. Having a good teacher is the best way, especially since alot of the things out in youtube land will most likely get you hurt or that it's explained in such a way that it leaves out the important parts that make it technique work as it should. For better reaction, you can talk to anyone who spars competitively, fights competitively, or someone who is sneaky when it comes to fighting. By sneaky I don't mean someone who blindsides someone when they aren't looking. I'm talking about the fighters who use alot of misdirection as part of their offensive and defensive tactic of fighting and sparring. They may be willing to share their secrets with you.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
Don't get the face gear. Not having it will remind the person how important it is to protect the head lol. As much as really wish I had the head gear that protects my face, I know that having it will cause me to do things that I would not normally do and I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing.

I haven't used the face shield a lot, but when I did use it, I personally didn't find that to be the case. I still had a natural instinctive aversion to getting punched in the face, and I did still feel some force of the impact, just not, you know, my nose getting broken. I think personally, for training and liability purposes, for regular people, it's better to prioritize safety.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,961
Reaction score
5,853
I haven't used the face shield a lot, but when I did use it, I personally didn't find that to be the case. I still had a natural instinctive aversion to getting punched in the face, and I did still feel some force of the impact, just not, you know, my nose getting broken. I think personally, for training and liability purposes, for regular people, it's better to prioritize safety.
I sparred with people with the face cage headgear and it just made me want to not hold back my punches to their face when normally I would have.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
We will sometimes put on just foot/shin, gloves/armguards, and cups, and then do light contact everything. But we do that rarely and only in the adult classes. My Dad learned not to do a back kick unless you do it quick, because as soon as he turned his back I had jumped on and got him in a rear-naked choke.

I think it's fun to do something different from the normal rules, especially when the normal rules are so restrictive.

In our Hapkido class we generally do situational sparring, where one person is the attacker and the other defends. The defender gets to choose which of several techniques to use in self defense, instead of going over rote drills. If the defender does the technique wrong, it usually ended up as a wrestling match (which I usually ended up tapping out on).
 

Koshiki

Brown Belt
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
424
Reaction score
137
Sounds a lot like a rule-heavy version of what I think of as sparring. You play fight, and the one rule is, "don't break each other."

In my personal opinion, which is easily debatable, real martial arts practice necessitates sparring which is as free as possible.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
We will sometimes put on just foot/shin, gloves/armguards, and cups, and then do light contact everything. But we do that rarely and only in the adult classes. My Dad learned not to do a back kick unless you do it quick, because as soon as he turned his back I had jumped on and got him in a rear-naked choke.

I think it's fun to do something different from the normal rules, especially when the normal rules are so restrictive.

In our Hapkido class we generally do situational sparring, where one person is the attacker and the other defends. The defender gets to choose which of several techniques to use in self defense, instead of going over rote drills. If the defender does the technique wrong, it usually ended up as a wrestling match (which I usually ended up tapping out on).

When you hit the wrestling match stage. Try to break free and stand back up.rather than going for your own sub. Makes life a bit interesting.
 

Latest Discussions

Top