Style for stand up grappling?

Discussion in 'Grappling / Brazilian Ju Jitsu / Wrestling' started by Finlay, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Finlay

    Finlay Green Belt

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    What is a solid style for stand up grappling

    a few suggestions

    Greco Roman
    Judo
    Muay Thai... ok more clinch work but still
     
  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Shuai-Chiao (or Shuai Jiao)



     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I like Judo’s stand up work. Nihon Goshin Aikido is a good option (my primary art) as long as it is taught with its Judo principles/roots intact (without that, it leans too heavily on aiki flow). Some of the Jujutsu out there is good for stand-up grappling.

    It’s more a matter of finding a school/instructor that matches what you are looking for.
     
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  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    folk wrestling for strikers.



    And this. A focus on standing back up.
     
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  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Of the systems that I have personal experience with ...

    Judo is excellent for use of the gi and developing nuances of kuzushi (off-balancing).

    Wrestling is excellent for no-gi gripping, lower body attacks, developing aggression and the ability to regain your feet.

    Sombo combines strengths of Judo and wrestling with some unorthodox gripping methods.

    Muay Thai has advanced grappling integrated with striking.

    (The 4 arts also have a lot of overlap. I'm just pointing out some of the areas each excel in.)

    I've practiced several other arts which contain standup grappling, but those 4 are the best among those I've trained in. Shuai Jiao looks interesting to me, but I haven't had the chance to try it myself.
     
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  6. Finlay

    Finlay Green Belt

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    Ah yeah Shuai Jiao.... lived in China for a while never got/tool the chance to study

    Good point.

    Aikido with strong judo roots, that must be quite interesting. I did Aikido before but the school closed just for I was due to take my 1st Kyu


    Really like the wrestling video
     
  7. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Black Belt

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    If I was going to pick something that would blend well with Jiu-Jitsu as another grappling art, it would be SAMBO. All of the Judo, plus a good deal of Catch Wrestling built in, and all of the work is already done to figure out how to blend them. Plus, guys have been doing no-gi SAMBO for while now, so all of the work has been done there to figure out how to make throws and takedowns work without having the grips that the gi provides.

    The problem is that finding legit SAMBO is difficult, whereas almost any decent size town has a pretty quality Judo club, and usually has great prices to boot.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    NGA is a cousin to Ueshiba’s Aikido. Both have Daito-ryu as their primary base. NGA also has strong influences from Shotokan Karatedo and Kodokan Judo. I have prior experience in Judo, so have an affinity for the Judo roots.
     
  9. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    I’m starting to become interested in stand up grappling. I sparred against a stand up grappler a couple of days ago and was pretty impressed. I’m a striker and he was an OK striker but was able to defend my striker and close in and get me to the ground. He didn’t fight me in the ground.
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I like the balance of training both striking and grappling. Whether the grappling is mostly stand-up, mostly ground, or an even mix, it's still useful and will tend to develop good takedowns and takedown defense (assuming the ground grappling starts from standing) - those two are the most basic concepts in grappling, IMO.
     
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  11. skribs

    skribs Master Black Belt

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    Hapkido is another art I would suggest as excellent for stand-up grappling.

    In fact, when we take the other person down, for the most part we're supposed to stay standing up.
     
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  12. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    In your Hapkido practice, what's the ratio of time spent drilling with compliant partners to time spent live sparring against resistance? I've heard different things from different schools.
     
  13. skribs

    skribs Master Black Belt

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    That depends on a few things. The first being how are you describing the difference between compliant partners and resistance? Are you talking about drilling with increased resistance, or simply "ok, Person A attack person B with whatever, and person B defend"?

    If it's the later, that depends more on belt level. When we had 3 blue and red belts, and I was a white belt, we did sparring a lot. Now that the class is one red belt, one orange belt, one purple belt, and a couple white belts, we don't do sparring as often.

    If it's the former, it depends on the person. We have one guy who is pretty hard to even do drills on. We have another guy that basically does the technique for you and taps out as soon as there's the slightest bit of pressure.

    I try to escalate. When someone is first learning the technique I give 0 resistance to build their confidence. When they've done it a few times I give a little resistance to make sure they understand the direction of pressure that needs to happen, and then I start escalating up to where I make them have full control, and then up again to where I punish them if they don't have control (by countering or reversing).

    We have a few guys that do this with me, but we also have one guy whose only setting is the easiest and another whose default setting is the hardest.

    One of the problems I have with the sparring (and it's a question I will ask my Master when I get a chance) is that when we spar, it's two hapkido guys grabbing each other's wrist. So if I grab my opponents wrist, he will break my grip and grab my wrist...then I will break his grip and grab his wrist...and then he will break my grip and grab my wrist...and you probably see where this is going.
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    By "resistance", I think Tony means actually trying to stop them. When you spar, you're training with resistance (you're trying to hit him, he's trying to stop you and hit you, etc.). From a grappling standpoint, that would be me trying to get you to the ground and you either just trying to prevent it, or even trying to get me to the ground.
     
  15. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    To @macher I also study Hapkido. It is a standup defense unless by some way you have managed to get me to the ground. We have defenses for that too. It is primarily defensive in nature, and we usually use techniques that result in damage or pain to an attacker.

    I would say look around, see what's available, and go visit. What you like, study.
     
  16. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Or you're trying to get me to the ground while I'm trying to hit you. People forget about that a lot...they either think "Okay we're grappling", or "okay we're striking", and forget:

    A. I can knee you while you try a double leg takedown.
    B. You can perform a takedown while I throw a wide hook.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    That would fall under the "trying to prevent it" in my comment. But you're right - we often segment these two activities artificially.
     
  18. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    It would in a way...this may be me being incredibly semantic. But to me, trying to prevent it means my focus is on making sure you don't take me to the ground. If I'm trying to hit you while you're trying to take me to the ground, my goal isn't to avoid going to the ground (or at least not my only goal), the goal that should be more worrisome to the grappler is me trying to knock you out, break your nose, cut your eye (with elbow, or weapons, which I forgot to include), etc.
     
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  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not really. There are risks and rewards regarding striking grapplers.

    And so if you are too preoccupied with knocking a guys head off. You can be more open to a take down rather than less.
     
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  20. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    And if you're too preoccupied with taking a guy to the ground, you can be more open to getting your head knocked off.
     
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