Striking 1 - 12 - Numerado

[Mark Lynn]

Back in the mid eighties I had the chance to work out (only briefly) with a older filipino gentleman in Waco TX called Tabbi (?)

From what I understood he was teaching us Balintawak. The strikes were the same and we practiced them in a straight line moving forward. We didn't switch feet as in replacement stepping, rather we just marched forward. And then we learned to block the strikes. When I got my first MA book (the Ohara one) I noticed there that GM Remy switched 8 and 9. I asked GM Remy why (97/98) and he said it flowed better.

I've seen GM Toboada's videos on Balintawak and it sure didn'y look like the way we did it. In fact there wasn't striking with control, full control or whatever. It didn't really look or feel like MA either for that matter. Oh well it could just be some dim memories.

Anybody ever hear of someone named Tabbi in Balintawak? He just disapeared one day and I never found out why or what happened to him. Just curious.

Mark

 

[arnisador]

I went to a FMA seminar once where they added a "13th strike" that was a reverse #12, straight up from the floor (with blade awareness). I liked it and occasionally tack it on for my own practice--it flows nicely with the drill.

 

[arnisandyz]

Anyone familiar with pikiti-tirsia's 12 angles?

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by The Boar Man
Back in the mid eighties I had the chance to work out (only briefly) with a older filipino gentleman in Waco TX called Tabbi (?)

From what I understood he was teaching us Balintawak. The strikes were the same and we practiced them in a straight line moving forward. We didn't switch feet as in replacement stepping, rather we just marched forward. And then we learned to block the strikes. When I got my first MA book (the Ohara one) I noticed there that GM Remy switched 8 and 9. I asked GM Remy why (97/98) and he said it flowed better.

I've seen GM Toboada's videos on Balintawak and it sure didn'y look like the way we did it. In fact there wasn't striking with control, full control or whatever. It didn't really look or feel like MA either for that matter. Oh well it could just be some dim memories.

Anybody ever hear of someone named Tabbi in Balintawak? He just disapeared one day and I never found out why or what happened to him. Just curious.

Mark

VERY INTERESTING MARK! (hows it goin' by the way? )

It sounds like this Tabbi gentleman was doing closer to Anciongs ABECEDARIOS. Basically, same 12 angles, but with #'s switched.

Toboada's Balintawak Cuentada does their ABECEDARIOS completely different from Anciongs original Balintawak, from what I have seen. It doesn't resemble MA or Balintawak; it seems to be GM Toboada's own thing (which is fine of course, no disrespect, as I am sure GM Toboada has his reasons behind it).

I will also say about MA 12 angles...it does flow better when done by themselves, and when trying to apply the 12 angles to the blade, in my opinion.

However, it doesn't flow better with Balintawak Seguidas. Once the next step, Seguidas, were added for me, I then saw the value of why Anciong had chosen his way to do his Abecedarios, and the differences were much more clear to me!

:asian:

 

[Mark Lynn]

Things are going pretty good for the most part. Classes at my house are picking up, and although money is still tight my wife and I are toying with the idea of taking a much needed break from the kids and possibly going to Germany for Dieter's filipino gathering. Plus a friend of mine and I have considered going into business together to teach and try and open a school later on down the road. And Hock emailed me today about somebody wanting an instructor to teach his material at a nearby school. So who knows things might be getting even better.

Anyway thanks for the response. When I took classes from the guy it was a backyard deal and it was great. However the martial arts instructor whom I was taking classes under I think messed up and Tabbi left without a word to us. I wasn't familar at the time with the filipino way and I really was wanting to learn the FMA. I left the instructor soon after Tabbi left if I remember right.

Mark

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by The Boar Man

When I took classes from the guy it was a backyard deal and it was great.

Sometimes, thats the best way to learn!

However the martial arts instructor whom I was taking classes under I think messed up and Tabbi left without a word to us. I wasn't familar at the time with the filipino way and I really was wanting to learn the FMA. I left the instructor soon after Tabbi left if I remember right.

Mark

Wow...how would the instructor mess up, causing him to leave town.....? (if you woulnd't mind elaborating).

It sounds like everything is going pretty good for you. THat would be pretty exciting if you were able to go to Germany...that looks like it'll be quite an event!

:asian:

 

[Mark Lynn]

Originally posted by PAUL
Sometimes, thats the best way to learn!



Wow...how would the instructor mess up, causing him to leave town.....? (if you woulnd't mind elaborating).

It sounds like everything is going pretty good for you. THat would be pretty exciting if you were able to go to Germany...that looks like it'll be quite an event!

:asian:

Sometimes that's the best way to learn! It was a very good deal, and for $3.00 a lesson to boot.

Well taking a good hard look at the finances and what my wife and I hope to do this year we've decided that Germany is off (BUMMER) (I finally had a martial art event that my could go to and wanted to go to.)

Actually I don't think Tabbi left town, it's just he stopped teaching us in the instructor's backyard. And we (the students) didn't know how to get in contact with him, he just stopped. The instructor met him and set up the classes and I think he pissed the guy off so he stopped.

IMHO what I think happened was that he (the instructor) told me once that he felt we should be moving faster on learning techniques so the instructor was going to trick the guy by countering his counter (block) so that Tabbi would then do the next technique. He did this at times and Tabbi would disarm him, and then the instructor would teach the block and the counter disarm at his normal class.

This went on for a couple of workouts till Tabbi didn't show anymore.

Mark

 

[Rich Parsons]

Any new posts about striking or or the terms used?

 

[Danny T]

Any new posts about striking or or the terms used?

I realize this is an old thread brought back to life and many you may already and gotten answers to some of the questions posed.

Some one asked about Pekiti's Abcedario and a bit earlier Numerado, and Alphabeto were also asked about within the different systems.

When we delve into the different training systems and what the different Forms or striking patterns present or teach I believe one needs to look at not only what was taught but when was it taught, to whom was it taught to understand why it was presented in the manner it was done. We often see within the system variations of material being presented at different times by the same instructor or different instructors and wonder why the variations. Some of the questions I ask: is it stick based, is it blade based, is it spear based, is it sibat, is it empty hand based, is it a previously trained person, or could it be for a very young person not ready for actual combat training, was it a general overview of the method, or ...? Over the years as I have learned more about myself when reviewing old material I will see much more than what I had seen previously.

The Abcedario in Pekiti was taught to the young men 9-12 years olds after learning footwork, Tuhon Gaje states he only did footwork from the ages 6-9. All of his training was in a family environment where he actually had no choice in the matter. His grandfather would place him on a table where he would do his footwork patterns while granddad tried to strike his feet with a switch. These days who of us would train with someone doing the same material over and over every day for three years? Once he started upon the Abcedario he spent a couple of years only on that. Imagine working only the angle 1 strikes everyday for a month before moving onto angle 2.

Today the Abcedario Pekiti style teaches the Basic angles of weapon movement, Basic body angles and stepping with ranging utilizing the basic footwork patterns, Basic target acquirization and striking. There are 12 sets of 12 resulting in 144 movements. The key to understanding here is that this is Pekiti-Tirsia BASIC. Within the 144 are how to hold and move the weapon, horizontal, vertical, diagonal, and thrusting strikes with a stick and a blade with a major emphasis on the blade. What parts of the weapon are used for striking and how to strike the target with the different parts of the weapon. All of these will segue into the different weapon categories. Solo, Doble, Espada ya daga, Daga, De Mano.

There are Broken strikes (from point of beginning the strike stopping the weapon at the point of contact and returning to the point of beginning).

Flow through strikes (From point of beginning striking through the target and continuing on to the opposite side of the body)

Circular strikes (like a flow through but weapon doesn't stop on the opposite side, it continues circling around the head and follows up with a repeat of the strike).

Live hand or third hand strikes

Once the angles and targets are known then the student is drilled on striking the 144 against the 144. I.e. #1vs1, 1vs2, 1vs3, and continuing until they have worked each of the 144 vs all of the 144 movements. This is done using angling, ranging, all while using the live hand for passing, checking, and or jamming. The weapon movement is used with Broken, Flow through and Circular strikes The idea here is to be able to strike any angle or target from any angle or target moving from largo thru medio into corto and back to largo. Pekiti's Abcedario isn't just a numbering of patterns but a comprehensive aspect of the beginner's basic training utilizing all ranges and weapon categories and strike combinations.

Set 1. The Basic set

1. Forehand Horizontal Left Ear
2. Backhand Horizontal Rt Ear
3. Forehand Horizontal Left Ribs or elbow
4. Backhand Horizontal Rt Ribs or elbow
5. Forehand Thrust to over opposite shoulder Prostate Gland
6. Backhand Diagonal down or Vertical down Rt Clavicle to either rt or left toe
7. Forehand Horizontal Left or Rt knee (whichever is foreward)
8. Backhand Thrust Solar plexus
9. Forehand Thrust Heart
10. Vertical Down (both hands on weapon Crown of head to toe
dropping into a squat)
11. Double grip thrust Bridge of the nose
12. Forehand Thrust and live hand strike Thrust to bridge of nose w/live hand to groin

Set 2. Reverse set
Set 3. Double Force
Set 4. Reversed Double Force
Set 5. Reverse Grip
Set 6. Reverse Reverse Grip
Set 7. Punyo
Set 8. Reverse Punyo
Set 9. Hooking
Set 10. Reverse Hooking
Set 11. Bayonet (derived from spear and utilized for today’s use of rifles)
Set 12. Reverse Bayonet

Each set has its own nuance and all sets integrate with each other

Numerado is using the numbers as strike patterns. I.e. writing numbers across your opponent with your weapon. Alphabeto is the same using the alphabet.

Hope this is helpful

Danny