Story about Atillo vs. Canete.

[arnisador]

The current (Aug. 2003) issue of Budo Intl. magazine has an article by 'Crafty Dog' of DMA on their use of Kali and Krabi Krabong (or on the cover, 'Kravi Krabong').

He tells a sory of GM Atillo of Balintawak and GM Cacoy Canete signing a contract for a fight that explicitly said NO GRAPPLING and says that a picture of the fights hows the latter choking the former with a stick. GM Atillo said that his opponent had cheated (I gathered that he said it in a good-humoured way).

The article's point with this story was that grappling did occur in Filipino stick matches.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I have heard of this story as well, except I never heard of the signed agreement to not grapple. This does not mean there was not one, only that I had never heard of one before.

There was even to be a rematch yet due to medical reasons one could not fight.

 

[Cuentada]

Yes, Balintawak (and other FMAs I'm sure) was known for its Juego Todo (NHB) matches so grappling was certainly not out of the question. I take it stricter laws at that time took all the fun away, especially since it was a public match?

As a student of GM Atillo, let me just clarify that Canete actually had Atillo in a front choke, with Atillo trapping Canete's stick with his left hand. This left Atillo's stick hand free to wack away.

My previous balintawak teacher witnessed this fight as a teenager. He wouldn't say outright who won the fight (eskrimador's code of silence?) but he did give me a hint that gave it away...but enough of the power and politics. Thanks.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Cuentada
.
. . but enough of the power and politics. Thanks.

Cuentada,

Thanks for the input.

Could you PM me about your comment I quoted above.

Thank You

 

[lhommedieu]

It is interesting to note that at least a few of the original members of the Doce Pares club, and their associates, had strong grappling backgrounds.

Cacoy, for his part, went on to found the "Eskrido" - based in part on his training in Judo and Aikido, among other arts.

Krishna K. Godhania describes the Atilla/Canete bout in Arnis (Tuttle Publishing). He states that the bout ended quickly as a result of stick blows.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[lhommedieu]

Sorry for the misprint - haven't had my Sunday morning coffee.

Atillo/Canete

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Cuentada]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Cuentada,

Thanks for the input.

Could you PM me about your comment I quoted above.

Thank You

Hehe, that was just the hint that gave it away for me.

Peace

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Cuentada
Hehe, that was just the hint that gave it away for me.

Peace

NP, I just wanted to make sure it was a statement about the fight and not something I had said or you or someone else thought I had said.

:asian:

 

[Olisi]

Of course I'd sign the same "contract". I'd be a fool not to. Cacoy was a known judo and grappling champion. His grappling was complementary and secondary to his stick and knife skills (i.e. it was not a coverup to compensate for the lack of stick skills). You should also remember that one can't grapple as easily with a protector or facemask. Once you get hit in the eye, cheekbone or nosebridge that's it for you. So you have to be really good with the stick because if you're thinking "I'd eventually grapple" the guy could hit you on the face or eye and there's nothing to absorb the shot. That's why these real matches never really last long. Most of them are just 3-4 hits of matches not longer than 20-30 seconds.

What I heard from the people that were there -- i.e. actual witnesses, first hand account, not hearsay, not told by this or that, not told by the combatants Cacoy or Atillo who of course could tint their versions of the story -- was that the first match was witnessed by a lot of people. This was a big event in Cebu.

The first fight happened on September 18, 1983 in the PC (Philippine Constabulary)/INP (Integrated National Police) Recom 7 Clubhouse. This is at Camp President Osmena on Osmena Blvd. Being in a public place the spectators were just gathered around the two combatants. They both started in the middle. Atillo was backing up as Cacoy was advancing. Apparently he was waiting for Cacoy to hit first. He backed up so much and into a spectator - who at that point "encouraged" him to fight by pushing him into Cacoy. Cacoy saw that this guy was rushing forward and thought he was going to bum rush him and grapple headfirst. Seeing this all rules were off and he headlocked Atillo. I guess if ones head was down he could have just hit him at the back of the skull or choked him to death or broken his neck.

Although, these were considered death matches there was still honor in them. You just don't finish someone off once you've made the hit. You give them a chance to gracefully back out.

Because of the "controversy" I heard Cacoy agreed to another fight - this time at a much larger venue. This was going to happen at the Cebu Colliseu,on September 22, 1983 - four days after the first fight. It was well publicized and 8,000 people showed up. Before the match there was a medical checkup (the bout was more "formal" this time being a bigger and more popular event). The physician, Dr. Tojong, declared Atillo unfit to fight (medically speaking) with 175/100 bp and pulse of 128 bpm.

Personally, I didn't see the point of a medical checkup, bp or pulse since they were fighting without protection and with the intent of killing each other.

I don't even know why this is still and issue. These are two old masters that should bury their hatchets. Atillo had all the time in the world to re-challenge Cacoy. They both knew where each one lived. They could contact each other. It's sad that this is brought up now that the man (Cacoy) is 84 years old - not that he can't still kick ***. Why wait all these years?

I heard Cacoy now lives in the United States in northern California (San Jose area) and Atillo lives in the Riverside area near Los Angeles.

This issue is actually between these two masters and we should not get involved. It's not our business.

 

[LabanB]

Hi All,

There was a website (I don't know if it still exists) which had scans of the documents and newspaper reports (including the photograph of Cacoy choking Atillo and the signed contract). I downloaded them, if its acceptable I will try to find them and put them on the forum. Assuming anyone is interested?

Bill

 

[lhommedieu]

It is interesting to note that Cacoy would have been approximately 64 years of age at the Atillo/Canete fight. I don't know about Atillo's age - but a high diastolic blood pressure for even a "middle" aged man is not a good sign before a rematch.

My thoughts:

1. What difference does it make who won the fight (or who thought they won the fight)? The point of the fight (which is something that 99 44/00 per cent of us [myself included] will never experience) is that both of them stepped into a ring wherein the term "death match" still had a meaning. That this happened in 1983 is, quite simply, extraordinary.

2. Neither fighter was seriously injured. Either both were very lucky or they had some kind of regard for each other.

With respect to Cacoy's age: yes, he's elderly and somewhat frail. From firsthand experience, however, I can categorically state that he can still "juice" a throw to show you what's what.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[OULobo]

God, I love these old death match stories. They remind me of old veteran's stories. They talk about things you almost can't imagine being done, especially by the people you hear the stories from.