Stomps and Slaps

[Doc]

yeah... rebounding shots off opponents targets is great... like two birds with one stone~ however, what's a little suspect is the extent to which slappin' yourself silly enhances your ability to defend yourself.

"Slappin' yourself silly" doesn't. I agree with you Pete sir, and unfortunately of those that attempt it have no idea what they're doing beyond "mimicry." the majority don't do it at all because no one teaches "how" or correctly.

is it a just a multi-sensory parlor trick with more style than substance when demonstrating a move "in the air"?

For the unknowledgeable "slap happy," unfortunately, you're correct again.

Perhaps it can be used as a training tool for solo practice,...

Well actually you're on to something there. It's called SET training for "Singular Execution Training." The human body is in constant physical flux that requires input from external stimuli to determine the state the body should be in including but not limited to; structural integrity, or not, direction of action, required weigth distribution, location of appendages, etc.

with the careful understanding that self striking is a surrogate for an absentee attacker, but not an integral part of the actual technique execuiton.

Well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. The body takes input from literally thousands of external and internal sensors, and is dependent upon counter-resistence for structural integrity. To execute a move in anticipation of significant contact where the contact does not actually occur, has a detrimental impact on structural integrity. Properly executed "slapchecks" in S.E.T. Training are always functional and valid whether alone or with a partner.

i've seen it adversely affect people's execution against a live body.

I have as well by those who don't know what they're doing. There are several "groups" who seem to like to "slap" their own ribcage underneath their arm. Very bad indeed to the knowledgeable done at the wrong time, and could cause significant damage to the executor.

For example, Glancing Spear, where someone i know thought for quite a while that eye strike was supposed to glance off their own forearm rather than attackers arm.

Well you know that's the product of, at the least, momentary incompetent instruction, or a misunderstanding on the part of the student. Pick one.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

The truth may not be pretty, but it is what it is. The ultimately interesting question for me remains...how many are willing to put down their laurels to pick up a pen and paper, and learn? I see kenpo 20 years from now divided into even further sub-divisions, each proclaiming lineage to a great senior, few providing meat-on-bones data to chew on and digest, metabolizing into ones Self to become stronger and better at a multiplicity of levels.

I had a friend in Learning and Memory who's rat was perpetually distracted in the maze. In a fit of frustration, he picked the rat up, stared it square in the face, and yelled, "LEARN, DAM'IT, LEARN!!". The rat quickly adapted to the task at hand. A message embedded in my mind until such time as death or senescence are fated to take it away.

D.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I have as well by those who don't know what they're doing. There are several "groups" who seem to like to "slap" their own ribcage underneath their arm. Very bad indeed to the knowledgeable done at the wrong time, and could cause significant damage to the executor.

Doc,

Is this more a matter of incorrect timing of the rebound movement, or is the ribcage simply not a preferable choice for use as a springboard, or is it both? I am curious because the drills that I participated in had a particular timing in the sequence.

MJ :asian:

The truth may not be pretty, but it is what it is. The ultimately interesting question for me remains...how many are willing to put down their laurels to pick up a pen and paper, and learn? I see kenpo 20 years from now divided into even further sub-divisions, each proclaiming lineage to a great senior, few providing meat-on-bones data to chew on and digest, metabolizing into ones Self to become stronger and better at a multiplicity of levels.

Dr. Dave,

Including Doc, I have communicated with a few Kenpo practitioners through MT who share your vision for learning. I hope you will all continue to contribute here. You are able to translate some of these ideas into digestible pieces that I am able to comprehend and apply. Thank you for taking the time to post here!

MJ :asian:

 

[Doc]

Doc,

Is this more a matter of incorrect timing of the rebound movement, or is the ribcage simply not a preferable choice for use as a springboard, or is it both? I am curious because the drills that I participated in had a particular timing in the sequence.

Dr. Dave,
Including Doc, I have communicated with a few Kenpo practitioners through MT who share your vision for learning. I hope you will all continue to contribute here. You are able to translate some of these ideas into digestible pieces that I am able to comprehend and apply. Thank you for taking the time to post here!

MJ :asian:

Specifically, there are areas located on the ribcage, (as well as other parts of the anatomy), that can cause significant disruptions and reactions of the body, generating false cues of anticpated contact, and momentary spasmodic beathing and muscle spasms, that when coupled with an external stimulus can cause weakness and subsequent injury. It is a part of many startle reflex actions of the body that conscious awareness can not overcome as a part of the autonomic nervous system. Bottom line; Don't do it no matter how cool the "rhythmic slapping" sounds. It just tells the knowledgeable how much you don't know.

If my recollection serves me well, (and it does) you received an "F" for failure to complete your last assignment, so .... -30-

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Specifically, there are areas located on the ribcage, (as well as other parts of the anatomy), that can cause significant disruptions and reactions of the body, generating false cues of anticpated contact, and momentary spasmodic beathing and muscle spasms, that when coupled with an external stimulus can cause weakness and subsequent injury. It is a part of many startle reflex actions of the body that conscious awareness can not overcome as a part of the autonomic nervous system. Bottom line; Don't do it no matter how cool the "rhythmic slapping" sounds. It just tells the knowledgeable how much you don't know.

If my recollection serves me well, (and it does) you received an "F" for failure to complete your last assignment, so .... -30-

Thanks Doc...

Ok, I know the assignment soo sorry I hang my head in shame!:asian: I've been busy biting people. I'll work on it TODAY!

MJ :asian:

 

[Ceicei]

Found another thread that is somewhat related to the topic here. There were a few nuggets found in there that were useful.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5245

- Ceicei

 

[DavidCC]

Singular Execution Training - this is a method to learn to limit the interference of antagonist muscles? Did I read the correctly?

Can anyone describe exercises or drills that will help me learn to develop the muscular control necessary to coordinate agonists, synergists, and antagonist muscles?

Thanks!
David

 

[Doc]

Singular Execution Training - this is a method to learn to limit the interference of antagonist muscles? Did I read the correctly?

Can anyone describe exercises or drills that will help me learn to develop the muscular control necessary to coordinate agonists, synergists, and antagonist muscles?

Thanks!
David

That is one thing it does. Think of executing a technique alone but giving your body most of the physical "cues" and resistence you would receive with a training partner, therefore making your singular training closer to reality and the actual execution of the technique with a "live" body. Every technique has to be individual "mapped," and timed in its execution and taught as a slight variation off of the default application.

Think of it as a mini-taiji form or set executed at application speed with the emphasis placed on proper body mechanics, timing, and focused application. Done properly the body is "fooled" and you can derive 80% of the benefit you would obtain with a live technique adversary.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

That is one thing it does. Think of executing a technique alone but giving your body most of the physical "cues" and resistence you would receive with a training partner, therefore making your singular training closer to reality and the actual execution of the technique with a "live" body. Every technique has to be individual "mapped," and timed in its execution and taught as a slight variation off of the default application.

Think of it as a mini-taiji form or set executed at application speed with the emphasis placed on proper body mechanics, timing, and focused application. Done properly the body is "fooled" and you can derive 80% of the benefit you would obtain with a live technique adversary.

Doc,

In focused application are you tensing your body? If so, are you tensing it only in places at points of impact or contact while practicing this? How is this different from practicing your techniques using overall body tension slowly and accurately?

Thanks :asian: ,

MJ

 

[Doc]

Doc,

In focused application are you tensing your body? If so, are you tensing it only in places at points of impact or contact while practicing this? How is this different from practicing your techniques using overall body tension slowly and accurately?

Thanks :asian: ,

MJ

One assignment at a time.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

One assignment at a time.

LOL...Ok fair enough... it's signed sealed and delivered! Buritto?

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Not sure how to do that cool multi-filed quote thing, so pardon my text blocks, hapaharzardly addressing topics.

Dr. Dave,

To show you this here I have to do it in two posts. If you want to quote someone hit the "quote" button at the bottom of the post and then type this before the block you want to comment on:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Then type this at the end of the block that you want to quote:

[/QUOTE]
Then delete what you don't want to comment on and then make your comments at the end of the blocked quote/quotes.

MJ

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Then type this at the end of the block that you want to quote:

Then delete what you don't want to comment on and then make your comments at the end of the blocked quote/quotes.

MJ [/QUOTE]
Thanks! Gotta try that!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Can anyone describe exercises or drills that will help me learn to develop the muscular control necessary to coordinate agonists, synergists, and antagonist muscles?

Thanks!
David

For kenpo-specific movements, I will defer to Doc. For motion, in general, there is a thing called "M.A.P." it out. Abbrev. for Mental Aptitude Patterning, and is a re-tool of the procedures of the New Behavior Generator from NeuroLinguistic Programming, specifically applied to physical motions.

In a nutshell, some part of your mind has been recording every physical movement you've made since you started kicking the inside of your mothers womb (note the pseudo-scientific, paraphysiologic reference to "mind" and not "brain"...I have yet to be convinced that Self resides in gray matter...rather, communicates through it as a conduit to the flesh...my own idiosyncrasy, and completely unrelated to the efficiency or application of the technique). This includes subtle effects of monosynaptic and polysynaptic reflexes, involved or associated with agonist/synergist/antagonist interactions.

For conversations sake, let's call this repository of information "deep mind". In MAP patterning, what we do is to establish an open phone line with the deep mind, otherwise left out of the conversation. So easy, it's decieving. Worked on it with a guy who reeeaaallyy wanted to get a lead leg hook kick up clean (despite hip damage potential), was plenty limber (could do the splits to the front or sides, stretch head to knees while standing, relax into full lotus position), but could not get the kick above the level of his hip. Where to start is in having an individual go inside, and watch -- from the 3rd person -- a movie of them performing the move they want to do, as they want to do it.

Run the movie, and watch it a couple times. Bring it closer, and step into the movie, so youre seeing the kick slashing out in the space in front of you, as if watching from your own eyes. Then, start to notice subtle internal distinctions...how are your feet and hips positioned, while you perform this tech perfectly? How does your pelvis shift to accomodate the raising of the leg, and the pivoting of the ball in the socket of the hip joint?

Then move from general, to specific...

Performing this kick perfectly in your mind, and experiencing what it's like from the 1st person, which muscles twitch first? Is it a thigh flexor, initiating picking the kick up off the floor, ot is there a preparatory abdominal oblique contraction that happens first, to stabilize and position the pelvis to support the raising of the leg? What next...hamstring contraction as you pull it to a pre-chambered position? And so on. Definitely expands your working awareness of your internal universe.

Having identified the kinesthetic chain of events, view the movie in slow-mo, and, standing there in real-time, just twitch the muscles associated with movements, as they occur in the film. Slowly speed the film up, and continue to "twitch it out", as the film gets closer to the speed of your desired execution. Notice when each mucle "turns on", as well as when each muscle has to "turn off" while handing off the baton to the next major muscle in the chain of events.

Next, staying with the hook kick example, comes the Simon Says part. Imagine the kick done at low elevations, see the path of travel it takes through the air, allowing it to leave a "trail" in the space before you. In real time, with your eyes still closed, throw the kick so that it moves p.r.e.c.i.s.e.l.y through the trail prescribed in your minds eye. It will only take a couple of times, and with each miss, you can inquire within, "what change do I need to make in tension and timing of coordination to match the trail?". Asked directly, deep mind will answer, but usually with a general sense of the change you have to make, and not with words. When you get it at that height and speed, take it up a notch...higher, faster, stronger...notice what the differences are in the path of the trail, and inquire within about the accomodations you have to make to stay in it. (Simon [deep mind] says "this is what it will look like before you when all parts are in accord"...twitching it out, then shooting it off while continuing to ask Simon for adaptations, leads to letting your body tell YOU what the groove and synapses are for your own maximal performance, rather than you trying to dictate from the outside, in).

Just keep cranking it up, keeping the phone lines open, and you'll be amazed how quickly you can accomplish coordinated neuromuscular timing in execution.

Nutshell: Your body already knows how to do anything you want it to...plateaus are due not to a lack of determination, but communication...with the part of you that already knows how. Learning is not the creation of optimal synaptic grooves, but discovery of their existence and expression of their contents. (Learning is not creation, but discovery).

Big idea, with warning: The only limitations of the mind and body are those we accept. Mom could perhaps pull Caddie off kid (urban legend), but would blow out multiple spinal discs and soft tissues throughout her body in the act. In experimenting with MAP with myself, students, and clients -- including professional ball players and olympic competitors -- we've erased the concept of performance boundaries, but also developed an appreciation for "everything in its own time", as well as doing the work to support the activity (i.e., get mom in the gym on 'roids for a year before trying to lift the caddie off the kid).

Personally, wanted to see how much energy, speed, and force could be generated into a three-move combo on a heavy bag. I opened the lines, started the movies, and just kept urging the movies to go harder and faster. Surprised the poop outta myself (didn't know I could hit that hard or move that fast), but also tore part of my rotator cuff in the right shoulder. Thought I, "the only limitations of the mind and body are those we accept...it's only pain, so keep pushing". So I did...the combo got harder and fatser (literally scaring the mook who was holding the bag, a veteran BB and Thai boxer), and the infraspinatus and teres minor & major kept tearing. Use this wisely...just because we can do a thing with our bodies, doesn't mean we should (as Doc so wisely puts it).

Olympic pistol shooter I worked with nailed the "improvement through entering the movie of herself performing at the next level up" thing, but also had to go back to some physical development stuff because she was using her body differently. Offensive lineman from ther RAMS (when they were still in CA) found the intensity to stay 1st string with the younger guys, but crapped out due to injuries a few years later when they moved the team...his intensity was young, but not the tissues in his body.

MIND MOVES MUSCLE! And also coordinates the activities between them. You already know how, you just don't know you know it yet.

One of my favorite examples about this when touring and giving seminars was the big reverse punch question. Do you rotate the palm down early in the punch, in the middle of the punch, at the end of the punch, or throughout the motion? Answer? Yes! I have everybody in the class close their eyes, and imagine seeing their hand being brought up from their side, and placed in front of their face as if to look into their own palm. Then I'd have them twitch it out, then raise it slowly in the fashion prescribed by their own mind when they first envisioned it. Everybody in the room raises it a little bit differently, because each person in that room has lived their own lives, in their own bodies, with their own ongoing feedback. So whose was the right way? Each was their own, congruent with the path THEIR mind told THEM was the best application of coordination to achieve the desired movement.

You can "discover" the groove your body wants to play in by constant repetition...generally, by virtue of the ongoing feedback, you will eventually discover the groove that's optimal for you (or at least close enough). Now, let's say that guy becomes a teacher, but before he did, he discovered his OWN groove was performed best by turning the palm down at the end of the punch. That's what he'll teach, because that's what he knows to be true for himself. Rest of the class takes it as gospel truth, and says "this is how it's done", and you have a motion version of an urban legend.

As a teaser, I had several "conversations" with Mr. Parker about this...the "Wow" of the sale is to take a novice or beginner, work with them for a few minutes, and have them executing a move with the same speed, power, and full-body coordination of the senior we used for a model (i.e., watch Mr. so and so throw this 4-count combo...take that movie, run it in your mind...now step into it, so you're seeing the moves executed in front of you from the 1st person perspective...twitch it out, etc.).

Just for kicks (no pun intended), take 1 of each of the following, and run the MAP drill with them, then just be aware of how those moves differ from your non-MAPped moves the very next time you train:

1. A block
2. A strike
3. A kick
4. A short (i.e., yellow, orange, etc.) Self-Defense technique or sparring combo.

MAP them out, and let me know what happens. But have a limit pre-defined to avoid injury. For example, "I want my front snap kick to be 6-inches higher, and 50% faster than it is now". The specificity of outcomes also gives you a target movie for your deep mind communication, as opposed to being vague (you get what you ask for, so be specific). If you reach the bar in short order, experiment with raising it by specific increments, and watch how the communication/performance dynamic evolves. Example: "Now, I want to perform this SD tech 3% faster than I currently do, with the strikes landing 10% harder... What will I look like at 3% faster? How will it feel on the inside when I'm hitting 10 percent harder? How will by body moving through space sound differently? (kimono's make different noises when the body is in different gears. For some, this is the most important key to identifying and unlocking new potentials). Make the movie, switch from 3rd to first person by stepping in, follow along with twitches, SIMON SAYS with LSD trails, etc.

You can use this for golf swings, tennis games, distance running (gait refinement for speed improvement with energy conservation), penmanship, typing speed, you name it. It's all about getting in touch with the part of you that already knows...the part of you that already can.

Psychological Warning: Many minds do best in a world with defined parameters. If you start futzing with boundaries of percieved reality (i.e., "It is the law of the universe that improvement only comes with long years of exhaustive repetition"), a mind thusly stanced may be apt to become a little shaky. Some part of you is bound to ask, "If I can change this with an appropriately designed intervention technique, what else that I've accepted as a limitation of mind and body might actually not be?". Unfortunately, I've seen some folks get a little wierd after playing around with Deep Mind potentials. So tread thoughtfully, and with ongoing introspection and awareness. If you find yourself challenging limiations you otherwise have a need to honor, stop.

Dr. Dave

 

[Michael Billings]

Dave,

I am not sure what NLP has to do with this. I was a therapist (psycho) [yes, I meant the pun], and Neuro-Linguistic Programming was one of the many seminars I attended and practiced, but do not see it's relevance in terms of MAP (Mental Aptitude Patterning) which I do see as relevant and applicable, in the same way we all used, as Mr. Parker called it, Positive Mental Imaging (which I still use), bringing the Ideal as visualized (after ensuring the student "visualizes the correct movement") into the physical realm through successive approximations and positive reinforcement. Coaching, kinesthetic awareness being taught for the correct movement, mirrors, video taping, and final results can all be used to help achieve this.

But somehow I am missing MAP as an offshoot of NLP? I know I changed careers years ago from therapist to administrative law judge, but still have friends in the community and stay interested (my ex is a PhD psychologist, and my current wife a case worker), so what am I missing here? NLP being used to interpret opponent's reactions yes, although as a rule we would not have time to be that observent in a life or death situation (that is we would not have time to read that quantity of small cues -- the larger grosser ones, eye shift, shoulder drop, hip flexation, etc, we may pick up. But not at night, outside the ATM with your hands up. In a classroom, sparring, as we get to know each other in technique lines ... then the "tell" becomes more obvious.

Am I off base here in how you define NLP? Does this thread on Slaps & Stomps really have anything to do with this much more refined type of subliminal cues? Is it worthy of it's own thread contingent on interest?

-Michael

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Dave,

I am not sure what NLP has to do with this. I was a therapist (psycho) [yes, I meant the pun], and Neuro-Linguistic Programming was one of the many seminars I attended and practiced, but do not see it's relevance in terms of MAP (Mental Aptitude Patterning) which I do see as relevant and applicable, in the same way we all used, as Mr. Parker called it, Positive Mental Imaging (which I still use), bringing the Ideal as visualized (after ensuring the student "visualizes the correct movement") into the physical realm through successive approximations and positive reinforcement. Coaching, kinesthetic awareness being taught for the correct movement, mirrors, video taping, and final results can all be used to help achieve this.

But somehow I am missing MAP as an offshoot of NLP? I know I changed careers years ago from therapist to administrative law judge, but still have friends in the community and stay interested (my ex is a PhD psychologist, and my current wife a case worker), so what am I missing here? NLP being used to interpret opponent's reactions yes, although as a rule we would not have time to be that observent in a life or death situation (that is we would not have time to read that quantity of small cues -- the larger grosser ones, eye shift, shoulder drop, hip flexation, etc, we may pick up. But not at night, outside the ATM with your hands up. In a classroom, sparring, as we get to know each other in technique lines ... then the "tell" becomes more obvious.

Am I off base here in how you define NLP? Does this thread on Slaps & Stomps really have anything to do with this much more refined type of subliminal cues? Is it worthy of it's own thread contingent on interest?

-Michael

Not NLP for assessing the opponent, but rather for communicating with your own unconscious, informed parts of the collective self...for accessing information otherwise unavailable. Making the connections with your internal parts during training that will aloow you to respond more naturally, rapidly, and authoritatively from the hands up position at the ATM.

I was fortunate enough to apprentice to one of the greater minds in the dark side of NLP, which acquainted me with an expanding network of Ericksonian Hypnosis & Brief Psychotherapy wizards, as well as NLP gurus of various ilk & application. I the went on to get a Masters in Communication Psych in Bruxelles...a specialty program combining/reconciling NLP with Speech Communication Theory, and Cognitive-Behavioral psych. Awesome program...I came outta there not too sure about what I knew, then got back to the states to help old friends, girlfriends, and acquaintences finish their doctoral theses...turns out the abuse in Belgique actually provided a very well-rounded and comprehensive overview into psych-related information analysis. Fun thing: They used altered states and NLP "drills" to install the information, and assist with improved learning and recall.

Anyways, Early NLP = communication analysis, using provided verbal and non-verbal information to make inferences about changes in state and internal processing cues occurring in the mind of the observed. Bandler, prior to going off the deep end with his human design engineering money-making plop, started exploring "sub-modalities", and their relationship to "what's possible?" (See "Using your brain for a change") as an expression of "New" NLP. There was also an intense "return to the source" movement...so much of NLP was patternized Ericksonian Hypnosis, that many of the NLP Seniors disenchanted with Bandlers antics hunted down the remaining disciples of Erickson, and studied everyting they could from/with them. Actually lead to some deeper understandings of the functional mechanisms of change that previously operated unidentified in the background of NLP's therapeutic intervention strategies.

A couple of threads come together: The idea that all capabilities are present, and come from within? Uncle Milton. Dr. Erickson believed quite literally that hypnotic remedies were simply the potentiation of unconscious resources, previously unidentified by the subject.

NLP Pattern for installing a new behavior in place of an old one: New Behavior Generator. Starts with the map or model externalized (imagine a you who can, or someone you know who can...etc.), followed by futurepacing to generalize the performance of the new behavior to as many appropriate contexts (see/hear/feel yourself doing this new thing X in the places you will be doing it...); provides the mind a map (Maps and models of the world concepts from NLP...you have to have a conceptualization of a new thing, and a plan of attack for doing the new thing.).

If you think about NLP as a study of the structure of subjecture experience, then one is left analyzing not only externally observable behaviors and their paralinguistic correlates, but INTERNAL behaviors as well (this is where I usually lose most psychs, because we had it so beaten into our heads that behavior is only those things which are externally observable.) If we extend the def of behav to include INTERNAL, UNOBSERVABLE events...such as changing your mind, or changing the content, focus or direction of your thoughts...NLP becomes inclusive of inter-personal communication, as well as INTRA-personal communication (what we think to ourselves, how those thoughts are structured, and how they play accross the fields of the cognisphere of Mind). Count the activities in the Black Box as behavior, even though they cannot be externally observed.

PARTS THEORY OF NLP: The self is not a single personality, but rather a chorus of sub-personalities, each capable of functioing on it's own to identify individual, internal needs, and monitor the resource management of meeting those needs. Six-Step Reframe = communicating with the part responsible for some undesirable behavior/attitude/action/etc., "X". Then having the creative part of the unconscious mind (or, for this context, Deep Mind) generate hundreds of alternatives...pick the top three, and get all parts in accordance with experimentation with these new behavioral alternatives.

There are still Communication Analysis model seminars taught over weekends, or even successive weekends. Much of the new stuff either has to be learned as part of an ongoing training apprenticeship, or extended training commitment. None of the above is really new, as most of the ideas and over-arching "patterns" can be located in the old Frogs into Princes, Reframing, and Trance-Formations books (as well as NLP, Vol.1). Attention to the minute details of internal representations (sub-modalities) can be found in Bandlers "Using you brain for a change" book (I always loved that ambiguity), but I would take the seminar live if you're interested...lots of "live" information presented underneath the presenting context (that old "watch what he does as he speaks, but don't listen to him" thing). The application of the patterns for intrapersonal communication to access unconscious resources specific to physical performance of a concieved or observed task is not really new, but the guys who know it -- and are actively doing behavioral modelling with cog-B installation of new behaviors via NLP & Ericksonian trance work -- kinda make you hang out with them for while, assist them with their research and training schedules, and buy them a lot of dinners & beers before they'll let you in on their dirty little secrets.

All this really is is the New Behavior Generator pattern, re-tooled to include T.O.T.E. (Test-Operate-Test-Exit...most common example being adjusting the stereo volume to preference...Test: is it loud enough? No. Operate: turn it up. Test: Now is it loud enough? If so, Exit the task and move on to the next item) cues at each sub-phase of physical performance. (got the picture right in the 3rd person? Great step in. Look right from the 1st person? Great, now time your twitches with those of the movie....and so on. In personal coaching sessions, we get real specific...What do you/will you see/hear/feel at each stage of this bigger, better, brighter you? What cues from the outside world (sound of gi on skin different?), as well as the inside (what do you feel in your body, and where, performing at this new level), will let you know you're at that higher place of performance? [outcome formation with VAK specificity...another NLP concept]).

I'm pleased to hear of a fellow psycho, the-rapist (ex) in the MA. I used to make some pretty good coin back in the day teaching NLP to Psychs (inc. LCSW's, PsyD's, etc). My personal favorite things were the accelerated learing and performance formats (company name, API: Accelerated Performance Institute...even made it out to Texas a few times). Next to that, Ericksonian conversational hypnosis. Absolutely love the subtle, conversational trance inductions, combined with repeating physical anchors during embedded commands, so you have a way of repeating the command to an undefended part of the patients mind, while back in the conversational therapy mode.

Anyways, as a historical piece, I've alluded to several chats with Mr. Parker regarding speed learning and performance. Mr. White introduced us at his studio in Costa Mesa in this context, and Mr. Parker and I had several subsequent discussions about the potential inherent in this model, and what could be done in kenpo if this model were taught to all students at a certain level. Did some process modelling with him, and some fun demo's of subtle improvement techniques, and it rang well enough with his accelerated learning interests that he wanted to collaborate on a project (article or book on the subject) when I returned from Belgium. He passed while I was gone, and that just kinda took the wind out of my sails with going anywhere with it. Been dusting off the old notebooks, becuase my chats with Doc have peaked my interest in re-learning kenpo, as well as techniques for increasing mastery of new movements, and spreading information/installing skill after I've put in my proper time and re-learned properly.

Doc (and yes, this is directed at you, most kind and excellent sir) may not always take the absolute best care of his overall health (like any of us do?), and I want to make sure I'm johnny-on-the-spot with learning everything I possibly can from him, as fast as I can, while the stars of fate are aligned to allow such study to occur.

Is it worthy of it's own thread contingent on interest?

Interest is the key. Knife-fighting seminars were filled, while "Creating Mastery from Within" halls were slight. A few years after walking away from it, I came accross an old draft for an initial article. I cleaned it up and sent it in just for memory lanes sake. Black Belt shot me back a thanks, but no thanks, stating they were looking for stuff more along the MMA lines for their publications. Every black belt I've worked with has shot through the cieling in their performance levels secondary to the coaching, but I maintain a privacy agreement with all my coaching clients...I don't tell anybody about you, and you don't tell anybody about me. Get my satisfaction watching from the sideline as clients whup on the competiton. You can build a better mouse trap, but most folks are just too lazy, or too locked in to the belief that progress and change are hard, to explore what a new toy can do for them. Closest I came to really wanting to see it go mainstream was in the back-burner project with Mr. Parker. That having not seen fruition, I'd rather sit on it, waiting to be asked before I share. David CC asked. As an enthusiast, I over-shared. Gladly. I only got so deep into this stuff, because I love it. Like I've also said in other posts, when I do teach, it's with a small cache of dedicated students. Why? Because we use this stuff to stretch the boundaries of what is possible. The content is incidental to the explorations, which themselves open new channels of mind/body coordination and cooperation (making the flow and mushin explord on another thread simple acts of flicking a mental trigger to return to a previously achieved flow or no-mind state). One student made me a t-shirt saying, "I Create Demons", because he was sure people alone could not achieve such results, in such short time, without being transformed into some other thing first. There is some really good stuff out there, but most folks don't care enough to step outside their boxes to learn what that might be. Those who do consider it their secret weapon, and don't wanna share. Makes spreading the good news a little challenging, particularly since I refuse to make a Tony Robbins-esque advert effort.

Regards,

Dave

PS -- if you're interested in a funky read that offers many things while teaching nothing in particular, pick up a copy of Richard Bandlers "The Adventures of Anybody". Does a lot of reframing of old, restrictive patterns and definitions in the field of human potential and behavior, all in the context of a tale, written in Ericksonian trance language. The simple generally miss it, because they try to follow the story line only, and not the manner in which the story is told. For your wife and ex, every therapist I know whose read it thoughtfully has experienced major insights into new approaches to their own therapeutic communication styles and objectives. My girlfriend is an LCSW involved in community mental health, as well as teaching seminars on how to work with BPD folks, so I've had a lot of chance to provide the read for others, then solicit feedback after completion.

Regards,
Dave.
Former NLP Mad Scientist

 

[Michael Billings]

OK, I am sure we are way off topic now. Last post re: Learning Theory stuff.

I did the earlier Ericksonian hypnosis while using NLP. That gives you my timeframe for learning and implementing NLP, which I found very useful, and of course self-hypnosis and insight to our own internal dialogue and responses was the very first part of the training. I was being a bit disingenuous when I said I had done a seminar or two on it.

None the less, now, in my official MOD hat - back to the topic, or I can split this thread into two separate ones re: the original topic and "how to learn" or some other such thread for EPAK?

Back on topic otherwise.

-Michael Billings
MT SMOD

 

[mj-hi-yah]

None the less, now, in my official MOD hat - back to the topic, or I can split this thread into two separate ones re: the original topic and "how to learn" or some other such thread for EPAK?

Back on topic otherwise.

-Michael Billings
MT SMOD

:lurk: This is interesting, and if Dr. Dave is willing to continue with more of this, I'd really like to see you split it into two threads.
MJ :asian:

 

[Kenpomachine]

I agree with MJ. This stuff on MAP and NLP has been very interesting so far.

Though I've heard of NLP before, it wasn't close to anything Dave wrote. And I never, ever thought it was something relating to envisioning the ideal and then actually doing what you've already envision.