Star Trek... military nuttiness...

[Bob Hubbard]

Kirk signed a lot of reports in TOS, I recall a 'fuel consumption report' at least once. The main cast were the department heads with Spock as both 1st and Science officer, McCoy as CMO, Scotty as CE. Uhura was head of Communications and I believe Sulu was head of Weapons. There were a rotation of different security chiefs, Thompson was one named. All of them had #2's as well, more often seen in the novels than episodes.

Memory Alpha lists these:

• Commanding officer
• Executive officer
• Second officer
• Third officer
• Chief communications officer
• Chief science officer
• Chief medical officer
• Chief helmsman
• Chief navigator
• Flight controller
• Chief engineer
• Head counselor
• Chief tactical officer
• Security chief
• Chief operations officer
• Strategic operations officer
• Intelligence officer
• Chief of operations
• Head stellar cartographer

 

[jks9199]

As a bit of an aside, in naval command structures, especially with earlier, sailing era ships with far fewer officers than most naval ships today, for a midshipman to find himself in command after a catastrophic incident (usually an attack) takes out the command staff. See William Sitgreaves Cox for one example of a massive collapse in the chain of command. The Seafort Saga by David Feintuch begins with Midshipman's Hope which shows another way that a naval command can break down. It's important to recognize that, in an era with much weaker and slower communication, a ship's commander had to have very wide authority and independence of action, and that was part of Roddenberry's vision for Star Trek.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Peeve of mine:
STTOS Enterprise has 430 crew. The STAR Enterprise is 3x as big and has a crew of 1,100.

 

[Steve]

Peeve of mine:
STTOS Enterprise has 430 crew. The STAR Enterprise is 3x as big and has a crew of 1,100.

Could you give me a clue what you are talking about? STOS, STTOS, STAR... I'm lost, buddy! Maybe a quick rundown of acronym/initialisms being used for those of us who are not members of the Federation of Planets.

 

[Sukerkin]

Well STTOS = Star Trek The Original Series.

STAR ... that one is new on me. Star Trek After Roddenberry perhaps?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Could you give me a clue what you are talking about? STOS, STTOS, STAR... I'm lost, buddy! Maybe a quick rundown of acronym/initialisms being used for those of us who are not members of the Federation of Planets.

TOS - The Original Series
TAS - The Animated Series
TNG - The Next Generation
DS9 - Deep Space 9
VOY - Voyager
ENT - Enterprise
AU or AR - Alternate Universe / Reality referencing the 2009 Abrams reboot of the franchise.

Often listed with ST (Star Trek) in front of them as in STTOS

More here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/database/glossary.htm#s

 

[Steve]

TOS - The Original Series
TAS - The Animated Series
TNG - The Next Generation
DS9 - Deep Space 9
VOY - Voyager
ENT - Enterprise
AU or AR - Alternate Universe / Reality referencing the 2009 Abrams reboot of the franchise.

Often listed with ST (Star Trek) in front of them as in STTOS

More here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/database/glossary.htm#s

Now translate all that into Klingon and show us what geekiness REALLY looks like!

 

[Drose427]

Someone brought up toilets....in Star Trek: Enterprise that question was answered....All waste is re-purposed aboard the enterprise.....making it a very unsanitary ship

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Someone brought up toilets....in Star Trek: Enterprise that question was answered....All waste is re-purposed aboard the enterprise.....making it a very unsanitary ship

I don't consider Enterprise real Trek as it contradicted a lot of accepted canon.
I do however like it for 2 things - Jolene Balock and an excellent Mirror Universe episode.
Sadly more the later.... LOL

 

[Tgace]

Ive always raised a brow at the engagement ranges between ships...all of interstellar space and ships are crashing into each other?

And there never seems to be an understandable classification of warships...crusier, corvette, battleship, destroyer etc. in most sci fi movies/television. They may CALL them by different names but you seldom notice any real difference in tactics or employment.

I recently read a military sci-fi novel that compared space warfare more to submarine tactics than surface fleet tactics. Ships were designed to be dark/light absorbing with no exterior running lights...tactics included keeping heat and radiation signatures hidden from enemy sensors. Engagements were about sensor contacts from long range and engaging the enemy at range from ambush and with surprise.



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[Bob Hubbard]

Star Trek did most encounters at range, but the tactics were more akin to surface ships. Star Wars, BattleStar Galactica (original and remake), and Babylon 5 were more based around carrier warfare concepts. B5 and the Galactica remake put effort into 'space physics' and 3 dimensional tactics.

Star Wars seems the most developed when it comes to differentiation of the ship classes. However, you're not going to find much in depth in the actual video. You need to refer to the support material both official and fan based to get 'in depth'.

Start here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/index-starships.htm

 

[jks9199]

Gordon Dickson actually did a reasonable job about describing space combat. I think it was in Dorsai!, or maybe Tactics of Mistake. Bottom line... ships maneuvering around, waiting to see if the missiles fired are going to hit or if various countermeasures worked, with survival pretty much either all the way, or not at all. Not many wounded, 'cause if something hit the ship hard enough to would the crew, odds were that they'd be dead. Even air-to-air combat today is much less like a dogfight... much of it takes place over the horizon and before the planes even really see each other. I mean, really, two jets closing on each other at several hundred miles per hour each... they ain't swooping around each other.

I watched Abrams's Star Trek reboot today for fun... And, yeah, I gotta side with the "no way!" votes on making Kirk a captain straight out of the academy like that. A pat on the back, a medal... and maybe a position as a lieutenant jg not ensign. Also... How freakin' huge is that newly designed Enterprise, anyway? Those Star Fleet ships seem to have bays bigger than some sizable warehouses!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Gordon Dickson actually did a reasonable job about describing space combat. I think it was in Dorsai!, or maybe Tactics of Mistake. Bottom line... ships maneuvering around, waiting to see if the missiles fired are going to hit or if various countermeasures worked, with survival pretty much either all the way, or not at all. Not many wounded, 'cause if something hit the ship hard enough to would the crew, odds were that they'd be dead. Even air-to-air combat today is much less like a dogfight... much of it takes place over the horizon and before the planes even really see each other. I mean, really, two jets closing on each other at several hundred miles per hour each... they ain't swooping around each other.

I watched Abrams's Star Trek reboot today for fun... And, yeah, I gotta side with the "no way!" votes on making Kirk a captain straight out of the academy like that. A pat on the back, a medal... and maybe a position as a lieutenant jg not ensign. Also... How freakin' huge is that newly designed Enterprise, anyway? Those Star Fleet ships seem to have bays bigger than some sizable warehouses!

Kirk in the original was the youngest captain, after over a decade working his way up the ranks. In the reboot, he gets the center seat then loses it again, and has to earn it again. But, it's as plausible as a cadet on his first cruise saving the USS Gerald Ford and being made captain after debriefing.

As to the size of the reboot ship.....it's huge.

http://gizmodo.com/5253324/how-big-is-the-new-enterprise-compared-to-the-old-one

 

[Tgace]

Exactly...when I say "at range"...I'm talking interstellar range. I read a military sci fi story many years ago that described the use of missiles that were designed to take years to reach their targets...it was all about a missiles stealth, detection avoidance and countermeasures.

I also notice how ships are always oriented to each other like ships on the surface..in actuallity ships would present all sorts of varied orientations to each other.


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[Tgace]

And what....no Marines?

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[jks9199]

Couple other things springing to mind...

Space battles & lasers. We've got ships traveling at multiples of the speed of light, shooting light beams at each other? (I know, that's part of the justification in the Trek universe for the photon torpedoes, though they never really seemed to hold fast to that rule...)

In Abrams's movie... Kirk & Sulu are falling over Vulcan. Chekhov sprints from the bridge to a transporter room, managing to take over & lock onto them before they hit the ground? How high up were they? How fast is Chekhov, anyway?

 

[Big Don]

I recently read a military sci-fi novel that compared space warfare more to submarine tactics than surface fleet tactics. Ships were designed to be dark/light absorbing with no exterior running lights...tactics included keeping heat and radiation signatures hidden from enemy sensors. Engagements were about sensor contacts from long range and engaging the enemy at range from ambush and with surprise.



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Oh HELL no! You did not just plug a novel and not give the title and author...
What were you thinking?

 

[Tgace]

Oh HELL no! You did not just plug a novel and not give the title and author...
What were you thinking?

Lol...

To Honor You Call Us A Novel of Interstellar War Book One of the “Man of War” Trilogy by H. Paul Honsinger and Harvey G. Phillips

Really good for an independent offering on Amazon. Read the first two and awaiting the third.

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[arnisador]

In Abrams's movie... Kirk & Sulu are falling over Vulcan. Chekhov sprints from the bridge to a transporter room, managing to take over & lock onto them before they hit the ground? How high up were they? How fast is Chekhov, anyway?

And where did he teleport their momentum to?

 

[DennisBreene]

Someone brought up toilets....in Star Trek: Enterprise that question was answered....All waste is re-purposed aboard the enterprise.....making it a very unsanitary ship

I believe plumbing was also mentioned in the tribble episode TOS.