SSG of Systema.

[arnisador]

I enjoyed the article in the magazine about the Slow Sparring Game because I have done something very similar before (under the late Charles Blodgett of Mo Duk Pai) and liked it and shared it but had never seen an analysis of it.

The point about previous arts coming out under pressure is very true but I hadn't considered it in this context. In my JKD class the other day we were doing kali techniques at perhaps half-speed and I was doing them as the instructor asked. Then we kicked up the speed and all of a sudden I was doing Modern Arnis instead--similar, but different. Trying to fight that urge to do it according to old habit only made things worse!

Speaking of which. 'Flow' is a major aspect of Modern Arnis as well.

 

[arnisador]

Is this idea used in ROSS too, or only Systema?

 

[RMAX.tv]

http://www.rmax.tv/nature.html

Yes, it is called Soft-Work in ROSS.

 

[arnisador]

The article there gets the idea across well.

 

[Arthur]

I'm glad you enjoyed the SSG article. Likewise I found reading the nature article after very interesting. Similar ideas, yet very different. Perhaps a perfect metaphor for System and ROSS.
the premise for a a very interesting discussion is already within this thread.

There are perhaps opposing ideas as well as congruent ideas in both the articles. Personally I think wit enough thought and examination... both can be seen to be right and harmonious.

So here is my "challenge:... instead of being the prototypical web board that takes sides... step up and discuss and work towards the "universal field theory". How to the contradictions indicate agreement?

Arthur

 

[NYCRonin]

I just finished reading (for the first time) the 'Nature' article (link above) and the others therein. I found them very interesting and informative.
I found it interesting to see, in printed description, the 'feeling' (or lack of) that I have experienced since my studies of RMA have rounded out my earlier 'hard programing' with a return to a more natural state.

I recommend that EVERYONE who wanders into this thread take the time to read the info contained in both links.

Then lets kick the 'unified field theory' around the room abit.

 

[TAZ]

any danger of reposting the article here? I cannot get the link to work..

 

[arnisador]

It worked for me:

Beyond Aliveness Part I: Incremental Progression of Soft-Work to Hard-Work
by Coach Sonnon ©Copyright RMAX.tv Productions

 

[jellyman]

An interesting article, it seems to basically say softwork is an important part of learning, but not everything, and you shouldn't let it get to your head.

I agree with that.

I was curious as to what Mr. Sonnon had to say about 'hard work' and his approach to it, whether he advocated limiting targets or methods/levels of contact to those targets, or say using protective gear instead and the merits/defficiencies of that, etc. etc. Perhaps an article for later.

The symmetrical/assymetrical dicotomy is interesting, although I see this as perhaps more of a spectrum rather than a dichotomy.

For example, it is not encouraged to lose ones equilibrium when attacking someone, and in fact I have learned some rather useful countermeasures for sportsmen as part of my training. So I would say that in any situation, it is best to 'trick' your opponent into going assymetrical while you retain your symmettry.

An interesting point was raised regarding the attributes built by the soft work was that the lack of surprise would make it easy to defend. This may be the case from a psychological perspective (of course there is other work for that), but from a pure movement perspective it's considered a cheat to suddenly speed up. In fact, in SSG (to borrow a phrase) people still get 'hit'. So if the defender does have an advantage, it seems to me the attacker's skill and deceptiveness must be forced to increase.

 

[Clive]

As I understand the reason that work is slowed dow is to appreciate he body mechanics of the opponent and to find the correct way to move.

 

[jkdwarrior2]

Slow sparring is also used to teach the body to move while maintaining comfortable arousal and tension levels which, when too high, affect your ability to move. It should be mixed with faster work when you are getting too comfortable at a given speed so that you gradually build up to a faster speed while still maintaining a relaxed supple body that allows for proper movement. Improvement is not a straight line, however, and sometimes you will need to step it up and sometimes you will need to step back.


You cannot only practice slow sparring and progress to a faster pace effectively without a comfortable progression that allows you to work without too much tension at each level. Also, you start out slow so that you are able to recognize the possibilities and repercussions of your movements without killing one another.


When I was at the Aiki Expo this year, I was working with non-Systema individuals and they elbowed me in the mouth and kicked me in the head, many times, because they were moving too fast versus how I was moving. However, instead of speeding up where I might have hurt them, I asked them to slow down so that we were able to internalize what Vlad was teaching without breaking each other. I feel that this allowed both of us to progress instead of having to waste time apologizing for hurting each other.


Therefore, when you start feeling nervous or scared about the speed you are moving with your training partner, slow down until you are able to work effectively without fear and tension and go from there.


Also, if you feel like you have to muscle your way while working, then you are not doing it in an efficient manner which Systema teaches. If you use up all of your energy on one opponent, then what about the other guys that are waiting to get at you.


You cannot have just fast or slow sparring and learn to effectively do the work.

Just my interpretation of the subject from both Scott's and Vlad's material. Tim