spear-hand break

newGuy12

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I am interested in training to do the spear hand break. Any input toward this end will be appreciated.

I have found this resource:
http://books.google.com/books?id=cN...ts=Qy1bev4pVM&sig=VwgnU0ilYg_uQpFHtEelknyhecQ
which notes that one should practice striking the pail of sand, as well as doing many fingertip pushups.

Many thanks to user 'searcher' who has already given me this tip:
Takes alot of time to condition for a spearhand break. If you really want to do it, then start spearing your hand into a bucket of water. Then let the medium start getting more firm. Once you can spear into wet sand to the point where your hand is halfway in, then you should be ready.



Regards,

Robert
 

Jai

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hehe I went and started looking up information as well after the talk about it on the breaking thread. Seems like what searcher has told us is the best way to go about working up to it. I know I'm going to give it a shot. If not for breaking then just for strength training of the fingers and finger tips.
 

Kacey

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I would be very cautious with this type of break. Fingertips are generally a soft-target tool - and soft-target tools are not the best tools for breaking. I've seen it done successfully once - as part of a demonstration by a man (Master Floyd Griffin) being promoted to VII Dan. I've also seen it done unsuccessfully... and that was very messy - the man in question (whose name I've forgotten) broke several bones in his hand, compound fractures that drove the finger bones out the back of his hand.
 
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newGuy12

newGuy12

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hehe I went and started looking up information as well after the talk about it on the breaking thread. Seems like what searcher has told us is the best way to go about working up to it. I know I'm going to give it a shot. If not for breaking then just for strength training of the fingers and finger tips.

Right. And, the information in the link I posted also has another good idea. The first time, you break a 3 inch board. The author, Jack Hibbard, says that that's not too hard to do (after the hand is conditioned). Then, you go for a 4 inch board. He says the pain starts to be felt at that point.

He said that serious students can possibly break a 6 inch board (after this conditioning), but that an 8 inch board is a stretch. Most people don't get that far. And, to progress past that point takes many more months. But, the 8 inch board break is the point that he says is respectable.
 
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newGuy12

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I would be very cautious with this type of break. I've seen it done successfully once - as part of a demonstration by a man (Master Floyd Griffin) being promoted to VII Dan. I've also seen it done unsuccessfully... and that was very messy - the man in question (whose name I've forgotten) broke several bones in his hand, compound fractures that drove the finger bones out the back of his hand.
Ouch.

I've seen two boards broken with this technique.

I've also seen a number of video clips of this break. According to Jack Hibbard, most students abandon the training before they succeed with the 8 inch board break. That may be the case with me, of course. But, if I do pursue it, I will certainly be careful!

Thanks for that note, Kacey, its certainly words to keep in mind! This is not to be entered into lightly!



Regards,

Robert
 

foot2face

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What ever training method you use, take it very slow. It is incredibly easy to break you fingers preforming a sear hand. Also keep in mind that training this technique has a high potential for long term damage, even if you don't injure yourself. My master's instructor was able to drive his spear hand through several boards but was unable to close his hand as he grew older.
 
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newGuy12

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What ever training method you use, take it very slow. It is incredibly easy to break you fingers preforming a sear hand. Also keep in mind that training this technique has a high potential for long term damage, even if you don't injure yourself. My master's instructor was able to drive his spear hand through several boards but was unable to close his hand as he grew older.

Thank you sir, I will certainly not rush this, if I do indeed stick to the training. I will also consult with my Instructor and my GM before actually breaking anything, of course.
 

tkdboy81

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This technique has also peaked my interest though the years, but I have been to chicken to try it. If you are able to acheive your goal let me know and maybe I will try it.:)
 

IcemanSK

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I got interested in this break after I saw the youtubes of GM Lee, Kyu Hyung doing this break. I tried it once & I'll never do it again. I broke the one board & didn't hurt myself, but it's not worth doing. Like Kacey said, it's meant for a soft tissue target. Not a target you'd need the force to break boards with.

It looks cool, but it's a lot of work to train a small area of your body & the down side (injury) can be big.
 
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newGuy12

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I got interested in this break after I saw the youtubes of GM Lee, Kyu Hyung doing this break. I tried it once & I'll never do it again. I broke the one board & didn't hurt myself, but it's not worth doing. Like Kacey said, it's meant for a soft tissue target. Not a target you'd need the force to break boards with.

It looks cool, but it's a lot of work to train a small area of your body & the down side (injury) can be big.

Oh, my! Congratulations, Sir!

Well, first of all, I can be honest with myself, and others, enough to say that I would probably NOT persist in the training for long enough to develop the hand strength to do it. I do have a tendency to start projects and not see them through, regrettably. Its something for me to work on.

If I may ask, Sir, what conditioning methods did you use? The fingertip pushups as well as striking sand? Also, I wonder if the consistency of wet sand is favourable to dry sand.

I am inclined to believe (and would like to have confirmation if possible), that if the practitioner can do many pushups with the hand in the spearhand, that he/she would then be strong enough to contemplate breaking the target.

Again, I will probably NOT persist in this training, going from my track record, but am still interested in it. And, surely, to be able to achieve this is certainly testament to a good practice, to good spirit! This is a Black Belt level technique! Not an easy one!
 

terryl965

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New Guy Dry sand and only do it once a week until you have gotten the hang of it, but remember a spear hand strike can and most likely will do permitted damage to ones finger with age. You and me are not young anymore. I have successfully done this break only once when I was in my early twenties and we did sand training for couple of years before I could do it.
I was playing around five years ago and break two finger, now this was stupid for I have not trained to do it for over 18 years , can anyone say dumbass.

Best of luck to you and let me know if you ever get there.
 

searcher

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Kacey's warning is right on. This technique is pretty dangerous and it takes a long time to condition. Don't get impatient and try this break early, before you are ready. I know many a breaking master that do not perform this one.


BTW-what are your reasons for learning this technique? It looks great in a demo, but is not really usefull for a whole lot more.
 
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newGuy12

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Kacey's warning is right on. This technique is pretty dangerous and it takes a long time to condition. Don't get impatient and try this break early, before you are ready. I know many a breaking master that do not perform this one.

Absolutely. I fully acknowledge the warnings, and are grateful to hear them. I certainly will NOT rush this. I fully acknowledge that the training for this takes a long time. This is not something that I expect to accomplish in a short time. And to be quite honest, it is not something that I am fully bent on trying. I will have to see how the training goes for me, and whether or not I have the tenacity to stick with the training (I very well may not).

BTW-what are your reasons for learning this technique? It looks great in a demo, but is not really usefull for a whole lot more.

Only for demonstration purposes. I have seen this in the book by Master Gwon, Pu Gil. I have also seen my late GM demonstrate this. I feel that to train for this and to succeed would help to demonstrate to myself that I am serious about the fullness of TKD, to take the more challenging parts of it along with those parts which do not seem so challenging.

It is certainly NOT something to be taken lightly. Not at all. And I am not committing myself to do it. At this point, I am only interested in engaging in the training for it, and to see how that training progresses for me.

We all know that this technique is possible. The only thing it takes is dedicated training over a long period, religiously, with the proper training methods. One can then, of course, when the time comes, break the 3 inch target. If all goes well, and the hand seems okay, it feels right, advance to the 4 inch target.

This is certainly NOT anything that I plan on rushing (or even most definitely finishing) I may very well NEVER attempt this. But, who can deny that this technique is not very good demonstration? Few can do it!

So, its just something on my mind. The stakes are high. Its a dangerous technique, which may cause injury (even the training may have ill effects), but, on the other hand, it is very impressive to see anyone achieve success. Surely no one can deny that.
 

Jai

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I'm still crazy enough to try it, I can't do much else still with my ankle.
 
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newGuy12

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I know. I'm tempted to go get a pail of sand this weekend when I'm paid. What could the great harm be in training? The risk of serious injury only comes with the actual breaking. And, you only go around once.

Oh, and I need to say Congratulations to terryl965 for successfully completing this break as well!

By all means, Jai, take extreme care with doing this, and I will do the same, should I start to train.

----------
Meanwhile, there is much other work to do. I am still trying to get into shape generally! SabumNeem said to give it 6 months. The flexibility is coming faster than the strength, and the strength is coming faster than the stamina!

But, its good to be back in the Dojang.
----------

Also, regarding age, you typically only see this break performed by older Men, I would say at least in their 50's. At least, that is the times that I have seen it done (either in person or in books or videos). So, we have that going for us!
 

searcher

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Jumping straight into sand may be a bit much a bit too quickly. Start with something a little less dense, like a bucket of cat litter. Laugh if you must, but it works great.

WARNING-even in training you still run the risk of injury. Do not take the training aspect lightly, it will bite you in the butt if you do.
 

terryl965

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I know. I'm tempted to go get a pail of sand this weekend when I'm paid. What could the great harm be in training? The risk of serious injury only comes with the actual breaking. And, you only go around once.

Oh, and I need to say Congratulations to terryl965 for successfully completing this break as well!

By all means, Jai, take extreme care with doing this, and I will do the same, should I start to train.

----------
Meanwhile, there is much other work to do. I am still trying to get into shape generally! SabumNeem said to give it 6 months. The flexibility is coming faster than the strength, and the strength is coming faster than the stamina!

But, its good to be back in the Dojang.
----------

Also, regarding age, you typically only see this break performed by older Men, I would say at least in their 50's. At least, that is the times that I have seen it done (either in person or in books or videos). So, we have that going for us!

The reason for older men is simple they have been conditioning for a long time, remember when you start conditioning when younger you seem to heal faster than when you are older. Please take every percaution you can before attempting this break.
 
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newGuy12

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Jumping straight into sand may be a bit much a bit too quickly. Start with something a little less dense, like a bucket of cat litter. Laugh if you must, but it works great.

WARNING-even in training you still run the risk of injury. Do not take the training aspect lightly, it will bite you in the butt if you do.

Good words! Thank you. I'm glad that this post is here, not just for me, but for others who may read it in the future!

Of course, finger pushups can also come before striking the medium, as far as I can see.
 
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newGuy12

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The reason for older men is simple they have been conditioning for a long time, remember when you start conditioning when younger you seem to heal faster than when you are older. Please take every percaution you can before attempting this break.

Of course! Good point! Again, this is something that may never come to fruition. I may never attempt the break, and certainly do not under any circumstances plan to attempt it before I have good reason to believe that I am ready.

Good points for the record here. This thread may very well be read by others in the future!
 

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