Sparring and My Difficulty Against Kicks
- Thread starter wingchun100
- Start date
A kicker hates that you
- catch his kicking leg,
- sweep his rooting leg, and
- drop you knee into his groin while he is on the ground.
I'm off to bed for a long sleep... when looking through the list of new posts I read the title of this thread as 'Sparring and my difficulty against kids'. I was sat thinking one should spar against kids smaller and younger than you, always the way to win........
Martial D
Senior Master
- Joined
- May 18, 2017
- Messages
- 3,407
- Reaction score
- 1,156
So do punchers, grapplers, and anyone with a Y chromosone.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 14,064
- Reaction score
- 5,986
Take a video of someone kicking at your head. Block the first kick with your arm. Allow the second kick to land on your face. Then let me know what you discovered.
jobo
Grandmaster
If I have time to block i have time to move, I only have rollback 6"
Even though I seriously doubt you could accelerate the mass of your body as quickly as you move your arm into blocking position, there's still a flaw in the logic.
You roll back 6", I still kick you.
That's well within range of changing a side piercing kick (using the 'footsword') into a side thrusting kick (using ball of the foot) - or switching a turning kick using the lower shin into hitting with the instep or flicking to the ball of the foot - or making a push kick into a snap kick.
jobo
Grandmaster
I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if I duplicate another.
It took me a few years to find that ALL techniques are from point A to point B. Don't be point B. Easier said than done but there are some ways to get to it.
First, note that just about everyone has a count. Say what? Watch the others when they are sparring. They square off, the anxiety builds and they have to attack. Most people do this to a consistent time. If you watch them square off and you start counting you will find that they move on the same count. If your opponent has a count of 5, then move on 4 1/2. It is fun to watch the look on people's faces when it looks like you are reading their minds.
It took me a few years to find that ALL techniques are from point A to point B. Don't be point B. Easier said than done but there are some ways to get to it.
First, note that just about everyone has a count. Say what? Watch the others when they are sparring. They square off, the anxiety builds and they have to attack. Most people do this to a consistent time. If you watch them square off and you start counting you will find that they move on the same count. If your opponent has a count of 5, then move on 4 1/2. It is fun to watch the look on people's faces when it looks like you are reading their minds.
The changes of kick I described were simply a change of foot position, so yes, I think I probably can.
I'm not saying it's certain either way - I can avoid some kicks, other people can avoid some of mine. It's a valid technique but not one that should be relied on to the exclusion of anything else, such as blocking.
But it's all theoretical on here - you can say you can avoid, I can say a portion of my training is how to deal with someone avoiding so I can very likely succeed. Nobody can prove either of us right or wrong.
(NOT a challenge) It'd be really entertaining to find out which of us would have the higher success rate.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
- Messages
- 23,390
- Reaction score
- 8,130
If you can you are facing off against sub par kickers.
If you watch a pro Thai fight those guys can't always manage to move.
jobo
Grandmaster
Well I'm prepared to acce
T there are people much much better than me, but I'm not LIKLely to come up against a pro fighter, Putting my hand up to try and block a pro MT fighter is also going to end badly,so it's a meWt point, we can safely assume I'm going to get beaten up sooner or later, probably sooner no matter what I do
Last edited:
jobo
Grandmaster
Just to make sure we are discussing the same thing, my point is if you can block you can move, not that you can defend ALL kicks thrown by anybody, that would be silly. Blocking is a high risk stratetgy, you likely to have to hand ar! Wrecked, it may be better than a kick to the face, but it's still not good and no where near as beneficial as not being in range. If there is no sting in the kick blocking or perhaps better TAKing the kick so you can grab the leg is ok,
Throwing kicks much above thigh height is also high risk, having you leg grabbed is a real possibility, that doesn't matter if you in the dojo, it does if they are going to dump you on the floor and stamp on you. Even with out the grab you now stood on one leg which makes you very vulnerable to a counter if your kick lands or not.
I'm happIly spend half an hour letting to try and kick me whilst I move, if your top end that may be painful but as you have admitted your kicks ARNt great I'LL risk it.
It works very well against people at my dojo, they kick i move, I take the standing leg or just dump them over, one of the instructors get quite cross when I dump him on the floor,
My i don't have to just move backwards 6 " I can move a foot, backwards sideways, backwards and side wards or just forward. Just standing still whilst they kick me doesn't sound sensible, though that is what' they reach quite a lot in ma
A good kicker (not me) can make that change in the same time the original kick would have landed. So, while you have time to move back 6", in that same time they are making the adjustment for that 6" move (without creating more time for you to move). In my experience, it takes a really good kicker to do this and still deliver an effective kick, but those people are dangerous for those of us (yeah, I'm one, too) who use that slip back to evade kicks.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
- Joined
- May 12, 2011
- Messages
- 4,685
- Reaction score
- 817
I agree it shouldn't be your constant goto defense.
QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]With regard to the defence shown (cup the kicking foot and strike the ankle area while stepping backwards) I don't think it would work against an experienced kicker.[/QUOTE]
That is why I said it is very difficult to look at grappling videos and know what is going on and what you need to do to make it work. What is happening is that he is trapping the foot. I didn't learn it that way, just to step back and simultaneously strike. A lot of what you are seeing, just like a lot of videos, is slowed down for you to (hopefully) learn. Moves are slowed down and done sequentially for demonstration and learning purposes (like forms for instance). The goal is to be fast and make some of the moves simultaneously so your opponent has less chance, or simply cannot react. From your comments, either don't try to learn, or know you can't just try it (or most moves) one time, decide it won't work, and tell the world what a bad move it is..
QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]One of the things we train to do is retract with speed and remake the kick while skipping the supporting leg toward the target, so stepping back would likely mean you just get kicked further away.[/QUOTE]
Yes, as I said.
QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]Another defence shown was to catch the kick and sweep the supporting leg.
During this evening's sparring I deliberately telegraphed a turning kick because I knew the guy I was against would grab it - as he caught I kicked his other side with my other leg...[/QUOTE]
So he had your kicking leg, and you used your supporting leg to kick his other side. What was holding you up?
QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]I'm not saying none of the techniques would ever work because some would against an awful lot of people, and I'm not saying I'm a fantastic kicker - but I reckon I could defeat the majority of those defences.[/QUOTE]
I don't know you nor your capabilities, so I can't disagree. But until you unexpectedly encounter one of those defenses, don't be too sure.
I'm not aware of this as a strategy taught by any MA (maybe MT, though I have always gotten the impression that's a training tool and used when movement isn't available). Everyone I've talked kick defense with moves. Most block while moving, unless they are countering while moving. I can't recall any who just move (with no block or counter).
Pretty sure we're talking about the same thing - what I'm saying though is that you can block faster than you can move.
To my mind, the ideal is to do both. Move enough (in any direction) to take the main force away, and block at the same time, possibly/probably turning the block into a grab.
That's why the retraction/recovery is as important (if not more so) than the actual kick itself. Get that foot back on the floor or get dumped. If it gets grabbed, learn how to use that to your advantage.
If anyone thinks they can perform an end game devastating kick first time every time, sure, leave it hanging out there for the kodak moment.
If you're human however, it's yours so get it back
If I'm ever up north I'll give you a message, it could be fun.
Yes, relying on moving in one fashion all the time just won't work.
Don't be the mountain, be the stream
oftheherd1
Senior Master
- Joined
- May 12, 2011
- Messages
- 4,685
- Reaction score
- 817
There is truth to that. Very basic moves I learned in TKD was that blocking was normally also a strike to ensure I moved the incoming arm or leg just enough to prevent it from hitting its intended target. A miss by 1 inch was a miss. So I was taught to block with the focus of my power where it needed to be, when it needed to be, to cause a miss, not so much how much space it missed by.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
- Joined
- May 12, 2011
- Messages
- 4,685
- Reaction score
- 817
