Sparring and My Difficulty Against Kicks

[wingchun100]

Don't worry. Everyone experiences weaknesses everywhere. But you will learn to adapt, especially if you know the blocks. The more you get hit, the more that the brain, body and mind will adapt to stop you from getting hit. But a key thing for this to happen is be steady on your feet. You can't expect to learn how to dodge, or use your feet to block or dodge if you can't keep your balance. Take a friend or some guy at your gym to do the same attack over and over and over at different speeds so that you find a visual queue for the attack. But remember to find the visual queue for the attack itself, not the person attacking you. Don't concentrate on learning the person and attempting to "feel out" when they will hit; concentrate on reacting. The best way to do this is to look directly at your opponent's eyes. In any situation, the eyes is where you want to be looking.

My balance is solid, even in movement. I think it's mainly the footwork where the issue is. One thing I should have said in the beginning is that my goal is to stay away from using HANDS to block FEET. I want to rely on one of three things: (1) distance to move out of range of the kick, (2) footwork to bridge the distance and cut the kick's power, or (3) developing good enough reflexes to stop a kick WITH a kick.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am having trouble visualizing it...ugh, damn message boards!!! LOL

Okay, imagine someone holding up their leg as if at the end of a side kick (so foot is horizontal to floor) directly in front of you. Note that the kick countered is a round kick (though the foot image I used is from a side kick) He's describing a digonal - either entering to that person's front (toe-side) at 45 degrees, or retreating to that person's heel-side. That avoids running into the kick (entering to heel-side) or trying to outrun it (retreating to toe-side).

I wish message boards had a simple line-drawing tool. It would make these descriptions easier.

 

[wingchun100]

A lot of good input already, Steve. I haven't finished reading it all, so this might be redundant.

One thought - are you practicing responses to kicks in drills (with a partner who has decent kicks)? You have to build the response over time. I bring this up because you mentioned the slow-motion sense of seeing it coming, but not responding. That sounds like your brain processing and looking for something to work with, and simply not coming up with a response in time. Drills shorten that process - that's what we really mean when we refer to "muscle memory". Drills also increase pattern recognition, which is useful if the drills use a kick set-up that is similar enough to what you'll see in sparring. Best advice for this is to pick someone whose kicks give you trouble, and work responses to that particular person's kicks as a starting point. Over time, you'll want to generalize that by finding people with similar-but-not-identical kicks to drill against.

Even if you just made some up (somebody made up every response, so you're likely to come up with some of the usual ones on your own), and practiced them against kicks, you'd have a set of weapons that would give you SOME response. Of course, if you can pick up some ideas that work for others and fit the movement patterns of WC, you'll be a step ahead in that process - but you'll still need to drill them.

I would love to do this, practice responses with drills, but I go to this sparring class at a place called Chinese Martial Arts Academy. What I mean by that is, the drills we do are picked by the instructor. Sometimes he asks what people would like to work on, but other times he already has a plan. However, I have talked to him about private lessons where we work on nothing but kick defense.

 

[wingchun100]

- Being you a WC guy (short distance fighter, isn't it?) keeping a short distance / pressure will favour you and will mess with any opportunity for a good kick. If you control his/her balance, you don't need to worry about kicks any more. The issue is when you have a Thai boxer or grappler in front of you... (Again, reading stances may give you a gift, if you don't know your opponent in advance.)

To finish, great kickers are hell. If you block, you get hurt. If you run away you get tired. If we can see them, because they can be ingeniously set up.

Yes, I am a WC guy. Well, not too sure about the "guy" part sometimes.

At any rate, footwork...footwork...footwork. I am quickly learning this is one thing whose importance transcends ALL martial arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My balance is solid, even in movement. I think it's mainly the footwork where the issue is. One thing I should have said in the beginning is that my goal is to stay away from using HANDS to block FEET. I want to rely on one of three things: (1) distance to move out of range of the kick, (2) footwork to bridge the distance and cut the kick's power, or (3) developing good enough reflexes to stop a kick WITH a kick.

I would say don't eliminate a tool by not learning it. Learn to use your hands in this defense, as well, then work to reduce the need for them.

 

[wingchun100]

Okay, imagine someone holding up their leg as if at the end of a side kick (so foot is horizontal to floor) directly in front of you. Note that the kick countered is a round kick (though the foot image I used is from a side kick) He's describing a digonal - either entering to that person's front (toe-side) at 45 degrees, or retreating to that person's heel-side. That avoids running into the kick (entering to heel-side) or trying to outrun it (retreating to toe-side).

I wish message boards had a simple line-drawing tool. It would make these descriptions easier.

There is always MS Paint. ;-)

I have played around with that actually. Let's say the opponent and I are both in a right-side forward stance. They come in with a side kick with their front (right) leg. I can either step to my right, or my left. However, for some reason I am thinking the step to the left could not be just a side step. I might have to do a pendulum-type step where I swing my back (left) leg around first, so I am switching from southpaw to orthodox.

 

[wingchun100]

I would say don't eliminate a tool by not learning it. Learn to use your hands in this defense, as well, then work to reduce the need for them.

Yeah, everything is a trade-off. That was pointed out to me recently. The teacher said, "Well, yeah you may have one hand to play with, but they are also down one foot!" For some reason, I never thought of that.

It's like when you go to the store to look for a certain product, and you miss it because you are looking for it. Sometimes things are obvious and seem like common sense, but as I have heard someone say, "Common sense isn't all that common."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would love to do this, practice responses with drills, but I go to this sparring class at a place called Chinese Martial Arts Academy. What I mean by that is, the drills we do are picked by the instructor. Sometimes he asks what people would like to work on, but other times he already has a plan. However, I have talked to him about private lessons where we work on nothing but kick defense.

See if one of the people would meet up to work outside class a bit. The class is a good thing, and like the rest of us you need to put some extra focus where you personally need it. That's going to take time outside classes, usually.

 

[wingchun100]

See if one of the people would meet up to work outside class a bit. The class is a good thing, and like the rest of us you need to put some extra focus where you personally need it. That's going to take time outside classes, usually.

I have put the word out there. So far, no takers. But I am DETERMINED to nail this down. It will not elude me.

 

[wingchun100]

One other thing I wanted to add: I cannot find the original comment, but someone said stepping into a kick might mean they are setting me up for punches. I have certainly had that happen, but I have been okay because most of my training has been against punches.

Plus, not for nothing, but right now I am not worried about what they MIGHT do after the kick. I mean, for all I know, they could drop to all fours and start barking like a dog. LOL For now, I want to solve THIS problem before I move on to the next.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There is always MS Paint. ;-)

I have played around with that actually. Let's say the opponent and I are both in a right-side forward stance. They come in with a side kick with their front (right) leg. I can either step to my right, or my left. However, for some reason I am thinking the step to the left could not be just a side step. I might have to do a pendulum-type step where I swing my back (left) leg around first, so I am switching from southpaw to orthodox.

The feeling to me is that the left-side, side step leaves you hanging out in the middle too long and staying in range of the strike. When you side-step right, you're actually staying a small amount further back (because you are removing the forward foot for the step). So I'd be unlikely to try to move left from that stance - it'd be like stepping across their target line. That might be how most people feel, or it might just be the result of the more circular movement patterns in Aikido.

 

[wingchun100]

The feeling to me is that the left-side, side step leaves you hanging out in the middle too long and staying in range of the strike. When you side-step right, you're actually staying a small amount further back (because you are removing the forward foot for the step). So I'd be unlikely to try to move left from that stance - it'd be like stepping across their target line. That might be how most people feel, or it might just be the result of the more circular movement patterns in Aikido.

Well, I think the key might be to not just do a linear side step, but to also go a bit forward, so I wind up crowding them.

Nothing would beat practicing on a person. LOL

 

[Gerry Seymour]

One other thing I wanted to add: I cannot find the original comment, but someone said stepping into a kick might mean they are setting me up for punches. I have certainly had that happen, but I have been okay because most of my training has been against punches.

Plus, not for nothing, but right now I am not worried about what they MIGHT do after the kick. I mean, for all I know, they could drop to all fours and start barking like a dog. LOL For now, I want to solve THIS problem before I move on to the next.

I'm less worried (probably less worried than I should be, even) about the punches they are setting me up for, too. In my case, it's because when I enter, I'm using their kick to set them up for some punches of my own. If I have my timing right, I have the advantage, even if we both go for punches - they have to deal with that kick they're throwing. Of course, if the kick is a feint (and I don't read it), I'm stepping right into their trap.

 

[oftheherd1]

The give away is why I very rarely bother with full roundhouse kicks.

And in sparring, I tend to use a slight chamber - the same chamber whatever the kick. I can lift my knee directly in front of me and from there go for either side of my opponent's head or body, push kick, snap kick, side kick, twisting kick, hook - or it's a launch for a back kick of some description.

Being able to do that means that most opponents tend to react to the knee lifting, and I can choose which kick I want to (try to) take advantage of their reaction.

Oh, and that's using either leg, front or rear, whichever one is in front.

A kick doesn't have to be a step, it need not alter distance at all.

Loads.

If I had none, every single kick would land - and they don't. Far from it.

Of course - I'm sparring against other kickers, most of whom have been doing it far longer than I have. The lower the rank of my opponent, the greater my success. Up to around the same grade as me, I'll land 80+% compared to their ~10% against me.

A fair few of the tells are necessary for the mechanics of the move - how my hips turn, how my support foot moves, what my hands are doing, where my upper body is heading for balance.

The thing I'm trying to do is work on the timing of those tells so they coincide with my opponent's reaction to the kick they thought they should expect - that and feinting the tell (which sometimes works exceptionally well).

Or, put my foot back down and punch, but that's my weak area

Then you need to work on your beginning. Just raise you leg up high. Don't begin your actual kick until after that. As already mentioned, spend time looking at your kicks. It sounds like you are making moves as you raise your leg, that telegraph what is coming. You shouldn't make any move to further the kick until you knee is high.

As to defenses, there are many. Google for Hapkido kick defenses. Problem is you may see some sloppy techniques, or with good ones, not realize what is really being done and think it would be ineffective. I don't have time to look at all, but

seems to have some viable kick defenses if you can figure out what is being done and what is just flash. Also some are slow so you can see some telegraphing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Then you need to work on your beginning. Just raise you leg up high. Don't begin your actual kick until after that. As already mentioned, spend time looking at your kicks. It sounds like you are making moves as you raise your leg, that telegraph what is coming. You shouldn't make any move to further the kick until you knee is high.

As to defenses, there are many. Google for Hapkido kick defenses. Problem is you may see some sloppy techniques, or with good ones, not realize what is really being done and think it would be ineffective. I don't have time to look at all, but

seems to have some viable kick defenses if you can figure out what is being done and what is just flash. Also some are slow so you can see some telegraphing.

Some basics in there (evade and block), and some movie choreography.

 

[pdg]

Then you need to work on your beginning. Just raise you leg up high. Don't begin your actual kick until after that. As already mentioned, spend time looking at your kicks. It sounds like you are making moves as you raise your leg, that telegraph what is coming. You shouldn't make any move to further the kick until you knee is high.

That's what I'm aiming for, and mostly getting.

Knee comes up, they react, I select a kick based on that reaction.

As I work with people with much more experience they have also developed speed, so it goes more like:

Knee comes up, they react, I select a kick based on that reaction, they perform a secondary reaction as the kick is in progress...

Sometimes I'm able to read the secondary reaction too and turn say a mid level turning kick into a high one, or a snap kick into a twisting kick.

It's certainly not an overnight process though, it's a constant evolution based on experience and observations.

 

[pdg]

Some basics in there (evade and block), and some movie choreography.

I especially liked the "catch a side kick and throw it down then use their knee as a step to climb up and perform a neck break".

Some of the stuff shown might work, some against a slow sloppy kicker who telegraphs a lot - but a fair proportion just wouldn't.

 

[JR 137]

Yes, you are saying what I was thinking too: use the opposite angle. So if they throw a curved kick, step straight in. If they throw a straight kick, you can use a pendulum step to get outside. Or just a side step. I'm playing around with it.

Awesome ideas, y'all!

If a pendulum step is an angle and still going forward, then yes, that’s what I do.

 

[wingchun100]

If a pendulum step is an angle and still going forward, then yes, that’s what I do.

IT is one of those things that is a pain to describe in words. Visuals are so much better!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I especially liked the "catch a side kick and throw it down then use their knee as a step to climb up and perform a neck break".

Some of the stuff shown might work, some against a slow sloppy kicker who telegraphs a lot - but a fair proportion just wouldn't.

Agreed. The "kick defense" techniques in NGA fall into that category, too. They'd work if the kick is sloppy or if you just get lucky and end up in that situation (one is actually a nice answer to "How did this foot end up in my hand, and what do I do with it, now?"). They are useful for what they are (IMO, mostly to get folks more comfortable with facing kicks when they aren't in sparring mode), but are largely replaced over time by what works in sparring.