Sparring against Shotokan Black Belt

Discussion in 'Members in Motion' started by Azulx, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    You are speaking 5 months of of Muay Thai at an MMA gym. My guess is that with in those 5 months there are a lot of Muay Thai techniques that you didn't do. 5 months isn't long
    Elbows to the body


    When you are inside close to your opponent then your opponent can no longer use many of his punches.
    How does not not make sense? If you and I are sparring, I close the distance to where you you can no longer punch, then for you that would only leave grappling. If I land an elbow to your chest or ribs before you can grab me then that strike will interrupt any technique that you would use on me. If you can grab me before my elbow strike then you will be able to interfere with my efforts to use my elbow.




    Am I the only one that trains elbows?
     
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  2. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    What your describing in that second part is part of how I spar grapplers. I use punches to close the distance, get in close and throw elbows while they try to execute a technique (or strike in the now - close distance) then use punches to get out. Without the elbows I would end up on the floor each time.

    It doesn't work for me as much as I would like, but I realize that's an issue with my own ability and timing, rather than with the existence of elbows to disrupt their movement.
     
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  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is no range that puts you too close to punch. There is methods that stifle punches but they also stifle elbows.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    No. In our movement, however, an elbow to the body is rarely a better answer than other tools in our bag.
     
  5. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    My observation was never that elbows could not be thrown in short and medium ranges, my observation is that trying to throw elbows to the midsection has a HIGH safety risk but LOW payoff. Notice how all of the elbow techniques thrown in the video clip are all aimed at and connecting with the head and face. None of them are to the midsection.

    I cannot disagree more with this observation. All techniques have a window of opportunity and applicability when the circumstances are ripe for them. But when sparring under very restrictive rules many of those techniques become high risk and low payoff if you try to use them under such restrictions. This is why alot of the Judo throws go out the window in mma matches. Without the gi the vast majority of the Judo throws are null and void yet people like Karo Parisiyan are masters at the full syllabus of the Judo throws because he trained it into the ground. But the conditions in the mma cage nullify the applicability of most of those throws. I think I would have a much better chance of landing an elbow to my opponents midsection if he's out cold while still on his feet. And even then why elbow him in the midsection at that point? I would rather take advantage of the window of opportunity and put him away for the permanent count.

    No, I didn't see that at all and I watched the video. The most you can hope for is an elbow aimed at the head but striking the person in the chest due to mistakes in distancing or timing or the movements of the opponent. But no I did not see any elbows to the chest in the video.

    Well, I don't want to aim my elbow at the chest because to me the slim chance of a payoff isn't worth it when I compare it to the high risk factor. Also, It's not so much as a voluntary restriction as it is a realization that certain techniques under sparring rules are my friends while others can be my foe. In BJJ and submission grappling matches you will see people regularly jump guard but you don't regularly see this in mma matches. The reason is because the rules in bjj and submission grappling allow them to do so with a much, much lower risk factor than than the rules of mma.

    Within those 5 months I was taught (and have drilled) the entire syllabus of the muay Thai arsenal. I trained four days a week and learned the full arsenal of the art of 8 limbs. Also, we should keep in mind that muay Thai is an altogether different ball game than muay boran.

    I was never talking about punches at close range. I was only talking about two things; elbows to the body and the retaliation of knees for attempting elbows to the body. I was never speaking on anything to do with punches or elbows to the face as high risk endeavors.

    I don't know what sparring rules you have in mind while stating that scenario but under muay Thai rules or knockdown Karate rules if you close the distance in an attempt to elbow to my body there is no way you are jumping back out to long range before getting intimately acquainted with my knees. :D

    One last thing, neither the video of the muay Thai fight you posted or the video clip of elbows used in mma show any elbow strikes to the chest or midsection. And the video of the people training elbows to the midsection is irrelevant since no one here has posted a fight where elbows are specifically aimed at the body. Not a training session, but a fight where the participants are putting it all on the line. As I noted earlier, it doesn't matter how many times one may drill certain techniques if they are low percentage under certain sparring rules against certain dangerous opponents.

    Osu!
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Thank you.. You understand what I'm getting at. The issue isn't with the technique but our own ability and not the technique. People often say that something doesn't work or that it's a low percentage, but out of the entire elbow discussion you and I are the only ones that actually train and work on using them. I'm pretty sure you that your elbows work better now than they first did when you were just starting out. And the only reason your ability has improved is because you work on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
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