Spanish knife fighting

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts - General' started by XOPC, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. XOPC

    XOPC White Belt

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    Hi All!

    I wonder if there are any specialists of Spanish knife fighting art. I am from Ukraine, and the art of knife fighting is becoming more and more popular here.

    However knife fighting is mostly represented by a system developed here by karate trainers called tanto-koi, or by a limited amount of moves or drills within uniarmed combat systems, like Kadochnikov Russian Style System.

    I myself studied Kadochnikov system for 5 years, and I can say, they really give some very simple and very practical skills relating to working with the knife, but they are all good for a very short-time situation, and in case if the fight keeps longer, they will not work.

    From what I heard about the Spanish knife fighting, it is quite a complex knife fighting system suggesting solutions for any situation.

    I am not sure, whether there are any actual navaja schools in Spain, but as I was told this art is still taught as something commonly known within families in Spain and Mexico, where professional knife fights were held up to 1930's.

    Will also appreciate any links to schools or instructors' websites.

    P.S. I also posted this in the knives section, but jks9199 told me I could find specialists of Spanish dueling style here.
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I know of Argentine, Venezuelan, and Filipino systems, but I'm not sure I can think of a modern knife system from Spain.
     
  3. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Master Black Belt

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  4. XOPC

    XOPC White Belt

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    I have heard of this book, but I'd rather be interested to find an actual person practicing the system, as I had an idiea to invite someone in for a seminar here (if I find, what I am looking for).
     
  5. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Master Black Belt

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  6. XOPC

    XOPC White Belt

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    Thanks a lot, looks like these guys have tried a lot of stuff, I will contact them shortly
     
  7. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Ken's navaja studies come strait from James Loriega.

    I watched as James showed Ken a new knife-set (a sorta two-man extended drill kinda like kata, I guess) and then told him that he'd be directing people in the Ohio-ish area over to Ken for navaja training.

    Further, one of Ken's students, Justin, happens to have a certain affinity for navaja work, particularly the sneaky hand switches that they do.

    If you're near enough to Ken, he's got the seal of approval.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    ---
    free western martial arts manuals: http://stores.lulu.com/lawson
    Cumann Bhata Dayton: http://cbd.atspace.com
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    James does seminars regularly. He's often at ISMAC, WMAW, and the like.

    He also has some very good students training with him who are probably up to seminars, though you'd have to ask him about that.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. Dwight McLemore

    Dwight McLemore Orange Belt

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    This past year I've been trying to ween myself off these forums but this thread was just too interesting to not comment. My research on those Bowie books back in 2001 lead me off into quite a bit of research and training with those large folding clasp knives of Spain. You know the big racheting folders. I went so far as to create a manuscript on it but eventually gave it too James Loriega because I just did not have the cultural background to do justice to that weapon. I trained quite a bit with James Loriega at various seminar over the past 5 years and even included some of his techniques in my curriculum when my school was open. Gary Mah and I hosted James at Bowies-on-the-Beach seminar and were very impressed with the unique aspects of this weapon. There are a lot of people that don't agree with James' approach, but historically speaking it is just as valid as anything else being taught. It has great street application too for the combat folder. For some insights into the Navaja get James' translation of Manual of the Baratero. It will give you a feel for the difficulties translating 19th century Spanish and the unique qualities of working with this weapon. DuVallier's Spain
    is another 19th century publication that has a paragraph describing a fixed blade version of a similar weapon.
    Basically my study has revealed that the basic cutting angles and thrusting lines seen in old manual of Italy, Germany, etc are very similar to what was used in Spain. It is after-all part of Europe. Some of the cutting techniques are tighter for the clasp knife and of course they have names that involve combination of techniques and movement. You'll see this in Manual de Baratero. A warning, use this book with a critical eye for the author was not a knife expert per sae (James points this out in his translation.) The Spanish language forums have a lot of blow about this are that being authentic and attack qualifications of people with no justification. Again use these comments for what they are worth. I would caution relying too much on Medieval and Renaissance fight books as a base for training unless you find one that is using a similar knife. Reverse grip with a Rondel just is not exactly the same. Using Thibault's Spanish System of Fence with give you some insights into the Corrida mentioned in MdB but remember it is for a Rapier like weapon and you have to make some adjustment when applying it to the knife. I'll tell ya, I have really enjoyed training with the Navaja (folding) bouncing it off some of the FMA and Bowie methods has been very helpful in understing the uniqueness of that weapon.
    Other than the people already mentioned here I do not know of any instructors that know this weapon. Undoubtly there are some people in Spain who can talk more intelligently than I about this topic, but here in the states I've relied on James as my source. I talked to a guy from Spain a while back and he brought up the point that the near East and European blend of cultures should also be considered when trying to define a fighting style that is unique to any system. I wish I knew more and I hope this will be of use.

    All my best
    Dwight
     
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  10. Taker87

    Taker87 Yellow Belt

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    Theres a book at paladinpress dot com called sevillian steel by james loriega it originates from the iberian (andorra,spain, portugal)peninsula.
     
  11. Taker87

    Taker87 Yellow Belt

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    There's also a dvd on spanish martial arts and a book portuguese jogo do pau stick fighting by luis preto
     
  12. dsling72

    dsling72 White Belt

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  13. dsling72

    dsling72 White Belt

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    Yes check out Acero Andaluz Andalucian steel prohibition era Esgrima on youtube
     
  14. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    dsling72...
    This post is from 10 years ago.
     

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