Something I noticed about Tracy Kenpo

[Twin Fist]

I have noticed that it is hard to find a tracy kenpo website that doesnt devote a few pages to slamming Ed parker and American Kenpo.

Can someone please explain this to me.

I am NOT trying to stir stuff up, I just dont get it,the man has been dead for 18 YEARS now...........

 

[Empty Hands]

From what I understand, there was bad feelings on both sides when the Tracys split with Ed Parker. I don't know how much of this was due to Mr. Parker's actions, but I sometimes hear from the AK side about how Tracy Kenpo is incomplete or inferior to AK since the Tracys left early and didn't really "understand" kenpo. It doesn't surprise me that some of this mutual antagonism has also been passed down on the Tracy Kenpo side.

 

[Twin Fist]

Well, i guess that makes sense, but my experience is different. I have never heard and EPAK people talking anything but good about the Tracy System. But like I said, all the Tracy websies that are for someone named Tracy ll have a section devoted to bashing Ed Parker and EPAK.

Funny Stuff.

 

[Flying Crane]

rather than asking us to speculate as to why someone placed something on their website, you could send an email or call them up and ask them directly...

 

[Twin Fist]

Didnt ask anyone to speculate, just asking if anyone else had noticed what I had, and if so, did they know why it seemed that way.

Ok, edited to add, i see you are a tracy bb.

So, tell me, if you can, why it seems like your system leaders feel the need to trash talk both EPAK and the man himself, thier instructor. But only NOW, after he is dead. Mind you, I dont have a dog in this fight, from what i have seen, i think the Tracy System is awesome. And I only reached brown belt in EPAK.

 

[Flying Crane]

Didnt ask anyone to speculate, just asking if anyone else had noticed what I had, and if so, did they know why it seemed that way

That's speculation.

Instead, you might be able to get the straight answer right from the source.

Seriously. These topics come up and usually it turns into another fight that's been fought before. I'm just suggesting you eliminate the filters and see if you can get the answers from those who set up the websites.

 

[Twin Fist]

FC,
Please dont think I was being disrespectfull, I am just sincerely curious.

I cant understand why there would be any hard feelings between styles.

 

[Flying Crane]

FC,
Please dont think I was being disrespectfull, I am just sincerely curious.

understood.

I cant understand why there would be any hard feelings between styles.

it's no secret that there were some tough times between the Tracys and Mr. Parker. I believe these men have/had very strong and powerful personalities, so when they went their separate ways, some fireworks ensued.

However, I believe the rift was not so great as many people like to believe. I was told by my teacher, who was a student directly under the Tracys since about 1963, that Al and Ed had a very cordial telephone discussion just a few weeks before Mr. Parker's death. Mr. Chapel has also mentioned in various places here in the forums that the animosity has been exaggerated.

What happened between Mr. Parker and the Tracys is in the past, and shouldn't affect us today, really. I feel that anyone who wasn't actually there at the time to be insulted/slighted/wronged in some way, really doesn't have a reason to continue the feud. And for those who were, maybe it's time to drop it and move on. But it's easy for us to pick up the biases of our instructors and our instructor's instructors etc., and sometimes we can get caught up in it again. And it's easy to jump into the fray when one perceives that his lineage is somehow being slighted or insulted or something.

But really, I agree with you. There should not be any animosity between lineages. The vast majority of us just were not there for the fight, so it shouldn't matter to us. Both men have established tremendous legacies and raised up prodigies and truly gifted martial artists, thru their methods. Their work ought to speak for itself, and that is where they ought to be judged.

And really, I think that in most cases there is no animosity between lineages.

 

[exile]

FC,
Please dont think I was being disrespectfull, I am just sincerely curious.

I cant understand why there would be any hard feelings between styles.

No really good reasons, no.

But bad reasons are as effective as good reasons in affecting people's thinking. And the MAs are one of those domains in which reflexive loyalty and lockstep solidarity are highly valued—which means, ancient personal conflicts get 'elevated' (wrong word, of course) to the status of noble causes, and the descendants of two MA stylists who parted company on hostile terms will very likely display the same hostility toward the unknown current practitioners of the other respective style.

This happens so often it's kind of an MA cliché. Drop into some of the other fora and you'll see the same thing. I don't want to fan any flames here, so to speak, but certain of the KMAs, the Ninjutsu discussions and (dare I say it) especially the FMAs are loaded with the same kind of bad blood. Sometimes I think it's kind of a bonding/group identity thing—part of being accepted as a member in good standing of the group is showing the proper contempt for the guys in the group whose instructor's instructor's instructor' instructor's GM was the person your instructor's instructor's instructor's instructor's GM broke with in a really ugly argument about money, control, or romantic partners. Or all of the above. It's not confined to Tracy's vs. Parker... and it's probably always going to be like that.