So, you think training with the Gi is unrealistic?

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' started by Charlemagne, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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  2. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Awesome! Loved the video. Gi or No Gi? I say train both and you will have a well rounded grappling game that will allow you to deal with people in clothes on the street or without them. Plus training in the Gi is just plain fun!
     
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  3. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Here's the video, so that folks don't have to click through to an intermediate website:


    The school in question is actually pretty close to me (a bit over an hour away). I asked Chewie to let me know the next time they have one of those events because I'd love to jump in and participate. (I might try to organize something similar at my school eventually, but I'm not sure whether the demand is there.)
     
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  4. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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    I agree completely. I certainly don't have a problem with no Gi training. In fact, I would say that doing some of it is essential for those interested in self-defense or, obviously, competition. However, I am also not a fan of ditching the Gi, despite the claims of some that it is better for No Gi or MMA competition to train exclusively without the Gi. From what I have seen, not all, but most of the top No Gi competitors train or have trained a great deal with the Gi.
     
  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    Even if you don't wrestle with jacket, you still need to know how to take advantage on it. With jacket, it can help you to "pull" much easier. The following "foot sweep" is hard to do without jacket. Of course you can

    - push on the elbow, and
    - pull on the shoulder.

    But that will involve hand position change. Sometime you don't have time for that. With jacket, you can make it as 1 move instead of 2 moves.

     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    We do "street clothes" training from time to time. Unfortunately, most people simply opt for shorts and a t-shirt or sweats, which doesn't give them a sense of the limitations of their normal clothes. (Of course, if that's what you normally wear, that's what you should wear to the class.) I've actually been toying with having them make a trip to Goodwill to pick up something that approximates their regular clothes, so they have something that can be destroyed in class. I suspect that's where most of those awful clothes came from in the video.
     
  7. JR 137

    JR 137 Master Black Belt

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    Awful clothes? What video were you watching? :)

    If I ever open my own dojo, periodically training in street clothes is one of my priorities. Work clothes training too. At least twice a year to account for winter clothes and summer clothes. We dress completely different in June vs January. Punching and kicking in a suit, tie, and dress shoes or a dress, skirt, etc. isn't going to be the same as barefoot in a gi. There's a good reason why LEOs wear clip-on ties vs regular ties. If you wear a traditional tie, you should know how to keep it from becoming a leash or strangulation liability in SD.

    Goodwill has plenty of clothes for cheap that'll approximate pretty much anyone's work and street attire.

    This video motivated to ask my CI if he's open to the idea.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    I'm thinking it's close to time for one of those sessions. I need to pick a date and post it.
     
  9. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    At least once a year, when people came into the school for class, they were told not to change clothes. They would drill the hole class wearing what they had on, shoes included. Some were coming from work. There were always clean gym shorts for gals wearing skirts (wore the shorts under the skirt)

    Nobody minded. (well, not too much) It made them aware of a lot of things.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    Ive thought about doing that, but we are too likely to damage clothing. I certainly wouldn't wear one of my suits and a nice shirt to grapple in. For strikes-based training and light throws, sure.

    I do want folks to have a chance to train in shoes. That's the one real limitation I don't have a good answer for. I don't want shoes on the mats, to avoid damage. I have a dream of one day having a space where the mat surface stays down, and having a carpet I can place over it for such occasions. I think the Gracies do that at one of their big schools.
     
  11. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    That's what training outside is for!
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    Oh, I love outside training, in fact that's the reason I chose to have everyone train in black gi's (some claim I chose it so the blood won't show...). If we're going to throw, we'd still need mats - Southern clay is way too hard for full falls.
     
  13. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Yeah, we did damage some clothing. Ah, well, that's the way it goes sometimes.
     
  14. JR 137

    JR 137 Master Black Belt

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    Wrestling shoes shouldn't ruin your mats.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    Yes, but those are no more realistic to folks' everyday wear than being barefoot. The point of wearing shoes in these sessions would be to closely simulate the advantages and disadvantages of their normal clothing.
     
  16. JR 137

    JR 137 Master Black Belt

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    I train in them on and off due to plantar fasciitis. For me, they change the dynamics of kicking and movement in general. You don't slide nearly as much when pivoting for kicks, and you have more grip in footwork. Pointing toes down, using the ball of the foot, focusing on the outside edge of the foot, etc. during kicking all changes. Not as much as with my Nike Air Max running shoes or something more ridged, but it definitely changes.

    I train karate on hardwood floors, so I may have a different dynamic going on than you do.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Wrestling shoes also make it much easier to get caught in a heel hook or toe hold.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    The hardwood is definitely different than a matted surface - easier balance, harder to slide with some feet/footwear and easier with others (including sweaty feet). Indeed, one of the things I encourage students to do is to practice what they can on all surfaces, in all different footwear. When I practice strikes and the movements of techniques on pavement, in athletic shoes, it's a very different experience than bare feet on mats.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have trained and fought wearing all sorts of things. And in all sorts of environments. It is more about availability of training rather than any desire to get some sort of street nuance.

    I doubt i could come up with every combination of clothing or environment that i may encounter.
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    Assuredly not. The point isn't to match every possible combination, but to learn to deal with the general restrictions and advantages of the clothing. That's why I want folks to wear something they'd commonly wear, that's not like a gi. If they wear sweats to a "street clothes" class, they aren't getting the benefit...unless that's what they normally wear (like my uncle).

    And if everyone wears something they'd commonly wear, you end up working with partners in a vast array of clothing, so you get to see what advantages and disadvantages an attacker's clothing might present.
     

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