Smaller MMA vs larger kung fu.

[dvcochran]

I wouldn't have suggested either of them were gassed.

I don't think Mr fu was knocking lumps out either. He had the size and was trying to use that. Mr M kept stalling those initial big rushes until he could get those effective shots in.

I would have suggested this as a tactical, technical advantage against better physicality.

You don’t think Mr. Fu played right into the other guys game?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where you could step back and hit the guy when he over reaches. Doing real damage quickly.

That's the primary strategy in striking for NGA, at least the way I teach it. It fits with the primary grappling approach (though I tend less and less to that grappling approach).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You don’t think Mr. Fu played right into the other guys game?

If DB's right that the MMA guy was biding his time, then yeah, Mr. Fu played directly into that. He was aggressive without having high impact (pun intended) in the first round, expending a lot of energy and giving lots of input to Mr. M.

Part of my observation is that one mistake that's more common in TMA than MMA (though not at all universal) is committing too much, too early. I have better luck drawing TMA folks (including those in my own art) into my game of playing just outside their distance. It's less effective against those who've sparred beyond trading blows in turn (the "your turn, now my turn" kind of of sparring).

 

[drop bear]

You don’t think Mr. Fu played right into the other guys game?

I don't think Mr fu had enough depth in his game to be able to have made that choice.

If Mr fu had backed off he would have been picked off.

 

[drop bear]

If DB's right that the MMA guy was biding his time, then yeah, Mr. Fu played directly into that. He was aggressive without having high impact (pun intended) in the first round, expending a lot of energy and giving lots of input to Mr. M.

Part of my observation is that one mistake that's more common in TMA than MMA (though not at all universal) is committing too much, too early. I have better luck drawing TMA folks (including those in my own art) into my game of playing just outside their distance. It's less effective against those who've sparred beyond trading blows in turn (the "your turn, now my turn" kind of of sparring).

Non effective striking is a monster trap. Because you are rushing your head forwards while opening your defense. You can't get around that if you want to fire off the big shots you will be open to the big counters.

Like poker. People loose biggest on good hands.

So while if you are smashing a guy. You should keep smashing him. Go nuts. But if you are hitting in to a guard or chasing air at some point he will probably hit you or take you down and you will be too open to stop them.

 

[drop bear]

That's the primary strategy in striking for NGA, at least the way I teach it. It fits with the primary grappling approach (though I tend less and less to that grappling approach).

I would suggest it be less stylistic and more individually determined. There are a lot of factors that will determine if you should be pressure fighting or counter fighting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Non effective striking is a monster trap. Because you are rushing your head forwards while opening your defense. You can't get around that if you want to fire off the big shots you will be open to the big counters.

Like poker. People loose biggest on good hands.

So while if you are smashing a guy. You should keep smashing him. Go nuts. But if you are hitting in to a guard or chasing air at some point he will probably hit you or take you down and you will be too open to stop them.

Well put. My general approach is, "Stay on defense until you get an opening - then stay on offence until they stop you." It's a principle, not an absolute, of course, but a lot of folks seem to struggle with it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would suggest it be less stylistic and more individually determined. There are a lot of factors that will determine if you should be pressure fighting or counter fighting.

True enough. The style (as with others, I assume) can contain a full range - it's more a matter of default than restriction. But, yeah, that's the one thing about styles - they tend to have a default position to work from, rather than being fully individualized (until folks get good enough to develop their personalized approach).

 

[jobo]

I wouldn't have suggested either of them were gassed.

I don't think Mr fu was knocking lumps out either. He had the size and was trying to use that. Mr M kept stalling those initial big rushes until he could get those effective shots in.

I would have suggested this as a tactical, technical advantage against better physicality.

i think you ned to watch it again with less biased eyes

any impartial observer would put mr fu ahead on points after the first round, well ahead, just as they would see his energy levels rapidly decline after the first 60 secs or so

yes energy management and letting the other guy punch himself out is tactical, but mr ma had no other choice but to do that

but then it comes down to train schemes, competitive fighter have to be capable of lasting the prescribed number of founds and so train accordingly and as above ration their energy expenditure

how far you can take that into street attacks is debatable, there tends not to be later rounds, so no need to conserve energy for a 12 round contest, consider how boxing matches unfold, 3 round contest against 12. the first few round of a 12 round contest are generally quite dull

having consider the issue, ive concluded that 5 mins is complete over kill for street fights and so use 5 mins of max effort as my training measure as the chances of getting into a fight with someone who can better that are reasonably low

of course that doesnt help at all, if he complely wrecks me is 20 seconds because he is not conserving energy

 

[drop bear]

Well put. My general approach is, "Stay on defense until you get an opening - then stay on offence until they stop you." It's a principle, not an absolute, of course, but a lot of folks seem to struggle with it.

It is not intuitive because you can be banging away in to someone's guard thinking you are doing something you are not.
It is one of the places I have received the hardest shots.

 

[drop bear]

any impartial observer would put mr fu ahead on points after the first round, well ahead, just as they would see his energy levels rapidly decline after the first 60 secs or so

I would have to go back and count the strikes landed. Which is not really my jam to be honest.

But just because someone is going forwards doesn't mean they are connecting the most shots and therefore winning the round.

And quite often where bias will show up.

Maywhether vs paquiou was a good example.

So I don't know who had the first round on points and it would be a shallow victory to claim for a guy who got knocked out anyway.

 

[drop bear]

how far you can take that into street attacks is debatable, there tends not to be later rounds, so no need to conserve energy for a 12 round contest, consider how boxing matches unfold, 3 round contest against 12. the first few round of a 12 round contest are generally quite dull

It is only partially about conserving energy. But also about creating a fight that lets martial arts do the work for you rather than size, cardio or a good chin.

Which with a random encounter on the street you don't really have control over as much.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is not intuitive because you can be banging away in to someone's guard thinking you are doing something you are not.
It is one of the places I have received the hardest shots.

And I’m sparring, folks like to trade shots. They seem to feel the need to make some sort of contact on a regular basis, even if it is punching a glove from too far away to reach a head.

 

[dvcochran]

Well put. My general approach is, "Stay on defense until you get an opening - then stay on offence until they stop you." It's a principle, not an absolute, of course, but a lot of folks seem to struggle with it.

That falls into the ‘chess match’ category for me. I tried to flesh the opponent out first and figure out what my options were. Usually could not stay on the offensive with the exception of a knockdown but even then you had to measure if/how much they were addled. Most often how much They went into a defensive posture was very telling.

 

[dvcochran]

True enough. The style (as with others, I assume) can contain a full range - it's more a matter of default than restriction. But, yeah, that's the one thing about styles - they tend to have a default position to work from, rather than being fully individualized (until folks get good enough to develop their personalized approach).

Of course this would include MMA.

 

[jobo]

It is only partially about conserving energy. But also about creating a fight that lets martial arts do the work for you rather than size, cardio or a good chin.

Which with a random encounter on the street you don't really have control over as much.

ignoring the title, which are notoriously inaccurate on you tube ( click bait) , how do you know one is a street fighter and ones a boxer ? and how have you decided which is which ?

they both look like boxers to me

after that its just a rerun of the fu ma fight with the bigger one tiring after good start and only one round so we have no idea how it turned out

all in all, im at a loss of what you think it proves !

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Of course this would include MMA.

To some extent, I suppose. I'll use boxing, because it's a simpler example. A specific boxing coach will have things they prefer, things their folks are going to be more likely to do. And folks who seek out a coach will go for a coach who tends toward what they want (counterpunching, etc.). But boxing contains a wide range of stragegies and approaches. I think of boxing like "karate" - the inclusive group that contains many styles. So, someone from Goju is more likely to have a specific set of traits (and perhaps strategies), and someone from Shotokan is more likely to have a distinctly different set.

I think MMA has an even broader spread, since there are several distinct styles commonly represented in MMA gyms, and the mix of those creates even more variety in tactics and strategies.

 

[Headhunter]

Let's look at this from a non biased non fanboy point of view.

The Mma fighter is not just a local club fighter who trains twice a week. It's nam Phan a very experienced Mma fighter who's fought in the UFC, WEC, Bellator and ONE FCand was a competitor on the ultimate fighter. So the guy did well lasting as long as he did with such an experienced practitioner

Second this thread is obviously the OP trying to tell us how awesome and cool and amazing Mma is and how stupid, terrible and rubbish traditional styles are but nam Phan is a black belt in karate and has a background in taekwondo so he's got experience in traditional styles as well.

Honestly these kind of threads are embarasingly childish and its laughable that this nonsense is still going on.

 

[dvcochran]

Let's look at this from a non biased non fanboy point of view.

The Mma fighter is not just a local club fighter who trains twice a week. It's nam Phan a very experienced Mma fighter who's fought in the UFC, WEC, Bellator and ONE FCand was a competitor on the ultimate fighter. So the guy did well lasting as long as he did with such an experienced practitioner

Second this thread is obviously the OP trying to tell us how awesome and cool and amazing Mma is and how stupid, terrible and rubbish traditional styles are but nam Phan is a black belt in karate and has a background in taekwondo so he's got experience in traditional styles as well.

Honestly these kind of threads are embarasingly childish and its laughable that this nonsense is still going on.

I do not fully disagree. There is always going to be the people who are really excited about their craft (regardless of genre) and spout off about how great it is. That is not always a bad thing to me. Where it goes off the rails is when they start talking in absolutes. That just shows their ignorance to everything else.

 

[drop bear]

ignoring the title, which are notoriously inaccurate on you tube ( click bait) , how do you know one is a street fighter and ones a boxer ? and how have you decided which is which ?

they both look like boxers to me

after that its just a rerun of the fu ma fight with the bigger one tiring after good start and only one round so we have no idea how it turned out

all in all, im at a loss of what you think it proves !

That there is a consistent approach to dealing with bigger guys using striking.