Slow, Precise Naginata Kata Demo

Discussion in 'Koryu Corner' started by Jason Striker II, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Jason Striker II

    Jason Striker II Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hmm, a few things. Firstly, it really wasn't that slow... the speed of embu will be determined by the line itself. And that was fairly typical speed in this case. Next, it features classical-based kata, but not classical kata itself. What we have here is modern Naginata-do, and a demonstration (embu) of the kata side of the training, rather than an actual classical form. That said, I can see a number of traits of the Ryu that went into making up modern Naginata-do present in their kata, so it's not too far off.

    To make it easier for anyone who has been encountering the same issues I have in terms of the host site you've been using, here it is embedded from you-tube:



    To give an idea of classical forms, as well as some differences in the demo speed, here are some favourites:


    Chokugen Ryu O Naginata. Using a very large weapon, the demonstration is naturally a fair bit slower, to avoid injury.


    Toda-ha Buko Ryu. In this case, against a spear (yari awase).


    Tendo Ryu, a large influence on modern Naginata, so a lot of similarity in the performance style.


    Jikishinkage Ryu Naginatajutsu. Sometimes the way a demonstration is given is more due to who is doing the performing. Here, we have the head of the system, in her advanced years, performing.


    Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu. Okay, these guys don't do slow....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  3. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Fan
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,314
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Staffordshire, England
    I really liked the Chokugen ryu demonstration. The power in the blade deflections was pretty impressive, as was the mobility of the practitioner to make use of the length of the naginata. As an iaidoka, I found myself trying to think of ways that I could get past the blade of the weapon and get into range :).

    Luckily, a naginata wielder is not something we normally expect to encounter when down the pub with the geisha's, so I wasn't too distressed that the only thing I could think of was to engage the naginata with the edge of the katana and advance quicker than she could retreat :D.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Go to Katori Shinto Ryu, my friend...



    6:46 onward for your request, but a minute or so before that to have a closer look at the Shinto Ryu method of using Naginata (also an O Naginata, similar to Chokugen Ryu).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Fan
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,848
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    England

    Wouldn't the Geisha be able to deflect any attacker by throwing her fan at him? The metal one that slices people open?
     
  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Oh, Irene, you're just trying to mess with my head, yeah?
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Fan
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,848
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    England


    I always thought Madame Butterfly would be more interesting if she had skewered Pinkerton instead of letting him take her son, let's see him trying to sing with his head parted from his body for example!
     
  8. billc

    billc Grandmaster

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,183
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    somewhere near Lake Michigan
    The internet is a wonderful thing. Imagine not very long ago, none of what is on these videos would have been accessible to anyone not in the ryu...
     
  9. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hmm, that's not quite right, really. This level of insight is certainly available to far more than before, but out of the 7 clips posted here 5 of them are of embu. These are public demonstrations that have occurred for a long time now, with various forms of embu being recorded as being held during the Edo Period (17th-19th Century). So the information was around, these techniques (or ones like them) were shown to the public, it just wasn't quite as accessible.
     
  10. pgsmith

    pgsmith 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Texas
    Correction, it was nowhere near as accessible. Before the advent of the internet, the only way to see embu was to either go there yourself, or to get together with those that were there, and watch their videos of it. Either way, there was a very limited number of people that could ever see koryu arts in action. Before the internet, there were a very limited number of people that even knew what the koryu were.
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    For the record, that's really what I was saying. My main point was that claiming that "none of what is shown on these videos would have been accessible to anyone not in the ryu..." wasn't correct, as these are taken from public demonstrations. So this exact information would really have been accessible to anyone who could get to one of the embu, whether fully public, partially public, or private. And, depending on the period, any of those could be the case.

    Basically, what I was saying was that embu didn't suddenly arrive with the internet, or with video cameras, so the idea of such demonstrations and public performance was not out of the question.

    For example, here is a clip from an embu in 1930, which had a large number of Koryu, as well as Kendo and other arts demonstrating. In this clip, we have the teacher of Otake Sensei showing Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  12. pgsmith

    pgsmith 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Texas
    I understand what you meant Chris. I was just quibbling with your semantics when you said it "wasn't quite as accessible". It's akin to saying that before the advent of airplanes, crossing the ocean was a tad slower. Bit of an understatement that. :)
     
  13. Furikaeshi

    Furikaeshi White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Wrexham, UK
    Hi Chris :) It's only a small thing perhaps but I should correct you on something. The art is not called "Naginata-do". It's usually referred to as "Atarashii Naginata" or (more commonly), simply "Naginata". Here's a reference as to why (other than "because my teacher said so" :p )
    The kata in the OP though are definitely the formal kata studied from Sandan (I just compared them to footage I shot recently for comparison to be sure). Thankfully it'll be a while before I have to worry about those though ;)
     
  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hi Furikaeshi,

    Yeah, I'm aware, but was trying to keep it simple for our OP, who doesn't have a classical Japanese art background. Most commonly I hear the term Atarashii Naginata-do (New Naginata Way), so just took off the Atarashii part, as I felt it may confuse things. Agreed with your comment, though.

    How long have you been training in Naginata?
     
  15. Furikaeshi

    Furikaeshi White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Wrexham, UK
    I started Naginata in 2010 to complement other arts I was practicing but gradually it's become my main interest ;)
     
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Very cool!
     

Share This Page