SKK Problem Techniques

[14 Kempo]

Your left / rights confused me. A right figthing stance the way i was taught meant right foot forwards, Left would be left forward, but thank you for clarifying that.

I can see that, but where I come from a right handed person will fight with his powerhand, right in the rear and thus the left foot forward. Vice versa for a left-handed person. As in any boxing match, you'll see an orthodox fighter with his left foot forward (right-handed) and an unorthodox fighter with his right foot forward (left-handed). Simply symantics. Maybe it is that I'm saying right fighting stance, rather than right-handed fighting stance.

 

[DavidCC]

....and now we are right back to the original meaning of the thread about skk combos and various attacks. We were trying to explore the standard combo against a different attack i.e. #2 proper against a left punch, now you have your right dominant side against a left punch and all you have to do is vary the targets ever so slightly and it all works....but wait didn't you also complain that there shouldn't be techniques that were one hand dominant.....also training your opposite side starts the process of learning about opposites and reverses....and if you have trained in AK then you DO have right dominant defenses against left hand attacks...???


Don't take this as an attack David its just hard to see where you are coming from at times

LOL no prob man heck my wife talks to me in person every day and she says the same thing. (And worse, she can make a Marine blush with her creative use of 4-letter words.)

I think there is a difference between "one-hand domaint" techs (like the traditional #2 - where one hand is "doing all the work" ) and training with one side being predominant and the other hand being subordinate (and then considering the mirror image).

Which is making me think here as I type about what it even means for a technique to be right handed or left handed. Is it that the power strikes are delivered with that dominant side? That's probalby close enough definition for now.

I am totally behind the idea that movements can have different applications - inward block inside a right or outside a left punch for example. I think this is far better than using a right inward block to go inside a rt punch and a left inward block to go inside a left punch, and then calling it the "same" technique in mirror image.

In SL-4 for example at their yellow belt level, 2 techs "sword of destruction" and "sword of doom". One for right punch and one for left. The initial block is either right inward block to inside of attacking right arm with your right, or right extended outward block to inside of left arm again with your right. after that the two techs are almost identical (certain angles of execution are slightly different but the sequence of strikes and manuevers is basically the same). Right block, right knife-hand, right kick. The left is far from idle but it is the "Supporting Actor" not the star.

besides, my SKK curriculuum doesn't contain the idea of opposites and reverses LOL. it is very short it says "go like this and hit him hard right there".

So in summary, I like both hands to have important jobs to do but my right hand is the Star of the show. Until we get to grappling, then the left finds a lot more Oscar-worthy roles.

 

[DavidCC]

I can see that, but where I come from a right handed person will fight with his powerhand, right in the rear and thus the left foot forward. Vice versa for a left-handed person. As in any boxing match, you'll see an orthodox fighter with his left foot forward (right-handed) and an unorthodox fighter with his right foot forward (left-handed). Simply symantics. Maybe it is that I'm saying right fighting stance, rather than right-handed fighting stance.

We train right side forward when you have the time to adopt a fighting stance. My best weapon (and best defense) closest to the targets (and incoming weapons). Plus it confuses boxers.

However mostly we train for situations where you do NOT have an opportunity to adopt a prepatory stance at all.

We don't use the open/closed terminology. We use "right / right" "right / left" "left / right" and "left / left".

 

[RevIV]

besides, my SKK curriculuum doesn't contain the idea of opposites and reverses LOL. it is very short it says "go like this and hit him hard right there".
.

Sweet,, nice and simple.... And for the first time I think Here you go.

 

[RevIV]

Sweet,, nice and simple.... And for the first time I think Here you go.

Damn i tried to put one of those smiley faces at the end of it for some fun.

 

[RevIV]

I can see that, but where I come from a right handed person will fight with his powerhand, right in the rear and thus the left foot forward. Vice versa for a left-handed person. As in any boxing match, you'll see an orthodox fighter with his left foot forward (right-handed) and an unorthodox fighter with his right foot forward (left-handed). Simply symantics. Maybe it is that I'm saying right fighting stance, rather than right-handed fighting stance.

Thats a simple enough answer. We were told right side fighting stance just meant right foot forward. But I def. understand the reference to the hands for boxing.

 

[marlon]

Yes, that is one way to look at it.

An open stance is that one fighter is in a right fighting stance, left foot forward, the other fighter is in a left fighting stance, their right foot forward. So the left side of one fighter is nearest the right side of the other fighter.

A closed stance, both fighters are in a right stance, or both fighters are in a left stance. Both fighters have their left foot forward, or both fighters have their right foot forward.

Does that make sense?

In our style, combos in the high forties are done from an open stance.

so the discription of the stance is relational to the opponent then, if i understand correctly.
marlon

 

[marlon]

thats different, Did he make that up or is it how he was taught - The version i do is taught the same by Jim Bryant, Bob Nohelty, Demasco - and i know they were pretty high up when they left Villari -- or is this one of the cases that involves the 12 rings of Villari Combo's? heehee

Could be ring 13 even!!1 Shihan says this is exactly how he learn it from Villari, though. Demasco broke from Villari pretty soon after he tested Shihan I for 4th...The last thing i learned from Shihan Nohelty was 42 and 43 and he gave those to me a rank early
respectfully,
Marlon

 

[DavidCC]

Damn i tried to put one of those smiley faces at the end of it for some fun.

like this?

:wuguns:

 

[Jdokan]

40 is one that I have to re-evaluate as I learned it.....It seems weak at the opening....Once moving is fine..here's how I have it...(though as I stated earlier about my memory)...against a right punch...step left to 10 o'clock, left palm cross block with a slight downward redirection...the right hand circles from the inside behind the blocking hand....it delivers an inverted palm to the side of the head followed immediately by a left inverted palm to the head...continue the motion and throw a right foot whipping hook or wheel kick to their head....

Anybody have anything similar...???

My concern is the first strike..I tend to like a more debilitating strike...I know there are 2 quick palms to the face......but....I tend to like the shock therapy of one good hard strike that I KNOW will shock him enough to not be able to throw the opposite hand....

 

[marlon]

40 is one that I have to re-evaluate as I learned it.....It seems weak at the opening....Once moving is fine..here's how I have it...(though as I stated earlier about my memory)...against a right punch...step left to 10 o'clock, left palm cross block with a slight downward redirection...the right hand circles from the inside behind the blocking hand....it delivers an inverted palm to the side of the head followed immediately by a left inverted palm to the head...continue the motion and throw a right foot whipping hook or wheel kick to their head....

Anybody have anything similar...???

My concern is the first strike..I tend to like a more debilitating strike...I know there are 2 quick palms to the face......but....I tend to like the shock therapy of one good hard strike that I KNOW will shock him enough to not be able to throw the opposite hand....

i have more of a hop to 10:00, my palm does not circle downwards. i havea rt thrust punch to the temple with simultaneaous rt blade kick to the back of the knee;rt hammer tothe kidney, then a lty palm check tothe shoulder blade rt cross hammer to the medulla . the blade kick brings the attacker to thier knee

marlon

 

[JTKenpo]

i have more of a hop to 10:00, my palm does not circle downwards. i havea rt thrust punch to the temple with simultaneaous rt blade kick to the back of the knee;rt hammer tothe kidney, then a lty palm check tothe shoulder blade rt cross hammer to the medulla . the blade kick brings the attacker to thier knee

marlon

Thats pretty close to the way I was taught also. In looking to other systems for similarities and "answers" this technique is very similar to leaping crane in epak.

 

[marlon]

Thats pretty close to the way I was taught also. In looking to other systems for similarities and "answers" this technique is very similar to leaping crane in epak.

True, i remember seeing that epak technique once and thinking that it had similarities to 40 also

 

[Jdokan]

i have more of a hop to 10:00, my palm does not circle downwards. i havea rt thrust punch to the temple with simultaneaous rt blade kick to the back of the knee;rt hammer tothe kidney, then a lty palm check tothe shoulder blade rt cross hammer to the medulla . the blade kick brings the attacker to thier knee

marlon

You know I think I meant 45.....I went over the technique in my head and still wrote the wrong number..............

40 is as you stated...though my last strike is a trigger behind the ear...

 

[MeatWad2]

My 40 has a backfist to the neck

 

[Jdokan]

Originally mine had the trigger to the backside of the neck....I didn't like that so I moved the strike a few inches forward to strike the "balloon" spot....I like your backfist though...more effective I think than what I'm doing now.....

 

[Jdokan]

Corrected # 45 is one that I have to re-evaluate as I learned it.....It seems weak at the opening....Once moving is fine..here's how I have it...(though as I stated earlier about my memory)...against a right punch...step left to 10 o'clock, left palm cross block with a slight downward redirection...the right hand circles from the inside behind the blocking hand....it delivers an inverted palm to the side of the head followed immediately by a left inverted palm to the head...continue the motion and throw a right foot whipping hook or wheel kick to their head....

Anybody have anything similar...???

My concern is the first strike..I tend to like a more debilitating strike...I know there are 2 quick palms to the face......but....I tend to like the shock therapy of one good hard strike that I KNOW will shock him enough to not be able to throw the opposite hand....

Now that I corrected this...anybody have any input? I'd like to know what others may be doing....

 

[RevIV]

Now that I corrected this...anybody have any input? I'd like to know what others may be doing....

on reference to #45 -- no nothing similiar. I am going to cut and paste from Matts webpage what I do.

We have two versions of #45
45 - (off of a Left straight punch) Step right to 3 o’clock, downward left knife block. Step to side of opponent’s body with left foot. Spin CW right foot going behind left, right knife hand to neck, left thrust to floating ribs (facing opponent’s side here), spin again CW, right back elbow to spine, left palm to back of head (occipital ridge). You should be in a right half moon behind the opponent, after a left palm grab to the shoulder, pull back and left sweep to persons right leg. When the opponent falls, turn CW dropping the left knee on the opponent’s right clavicle, left palm to heart and if you can reach right back punch to Femoral Artery (groin if you cant reach).(Courtesy of Jesse Dwire IV)

45 - Left parry to the outside of the arm right, downwards circluar block to the outside of the attacking arm (maybe rake the eyes on the way ) and a right roundhouse to the groin or shin roundhouse to the right inner thigh. Place the right leg behind uke’s right ankle with a right elbow to the head. Turn ccw into a side horse with a left elbow to the ribs. Pivot into a forward / fighting stance facing 12:00 with a right palm to the head as you step through with the right leg and then step back with the left leg into a side horse facing 9:00 (still ccw turn) while delivering a left elbow to the spine. the left arm comes up to give a ridge hand strike to the throat and the drop your right knee to the ground pulling the attacker down. fininshg with a left palm between the legs and a right palm to the bladder.(Courtesy of Marlon Wilson)

 

[DavidCC]

We recently changed the way we end SDM #3.

Previously we ended with, after dropping him using the shoulder twist, a left straight punch to the solar plexus or face.

We have changed that to be a left kick to the face, if needed. This must be done with discretion because this could in some circumstances put us over the line form 'defending myself" to 'attacking a helpless person' from a legal perspective.

Which highlights another area we are changing. We are emphasizing the tactics of the situation. Does the throw sufficiently incapacitate the attacker? Then no kick. is he trying to get back up to continue his attack - kick him. It's part of a bigger "strategic" enhancement we are trying to incorporate, which I will try to write more about later but I still have lots of thinking to do on it and it's still undergoing development too.

 

[JTKenpo]

We recently changed the way we end SDM #3.

Previously we ended with, after dropping him using the shoulder twist, a left straight punch to the solar plexus or face.

We have changed that to be a left kick to the face, if needed. This must be done with discretion because this could in some circumstances put us over the line form 'defending myself" to 'attacking a helpless person' from a legal perspective.

Which highlights another area we are changing. We are emphasizing the tactics of the situation. Does the throw sufficiently incapacitate the attacker? Then no kick. is he trying to get back up to continue his attack - kick him. It's part of a bigger "strategic" enhancement we are trying to incorporate, which I will try to write more about later but I still have lots of thinking to do on it and it's still undergoing development too.

I was originally taught throw him to the ground THEN hit him as well. It was Prof Rebelo who pointed out the legal implications and explained how to hit him on the way down (once down he becomes the attacked instead of the attacker). I imagine you are switching to a kick to also keep yellow belts from bending over at the waist to strike a downed oponent, leaning their whole body over rather then just bending the knees and keeping back straight? When ever I have trouble breaking some one of that habit I have them perform the tech and when they bend over to hit me I grab their arm, gi, hair, whatever and pull them into a forward roll over the top of me allowing me to use that momentum and end up in the mount position on top. That normally cures that nasty bad habit.