Siu Nim Tao

[Highlander]

What are some "little ideas" you like to think about when practicing this form?
-No thoughts at all, moving meditation
-keep stance low, body straight
-Body weight behind all movements
-Heavy elbows, relaxed shoulders
-Breathe

 

[Danny T]

Mental intent.

 

[Highlander]

Let's go a step deeper... what do you think each section is teaching you.
(Maybe give a short rundown of the movement of the sections since we all do it differently)

 

[Danny T]

Relaxation, Forward intent, Centerline theory, 6 major gates, Stance structure, Recognizing and adjusting small changes in one's center of gravity and how proper breathing is coordinated with limb movements, Facing concepts, Elbow control and placement, Wrist abduction, Understanding of body mechanics - where the body is mechanically stronger vs muscularly stronger, Immovable elbow theory, Joint connectivity and aligning of the body to the ground for power generation.

 

[yak sao]

To add to an already great list, I would say that SNT teaches mindfulness. It is important to be aware of what your body is doing and how to execute a movement with proper body mechanics before you have the stress, both physically and emotionally, of a live opponent in front of you.
Once developed, this "SNT state", helps you to stay relaxed when under pressure of a live opponent.

 

[Highlander]

[QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,[/QUOTE]
Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just so you all know, this conversation got me working on Siu Nim Tao. Still think it is one of the best Qigong training forms I ever learned....well I didn't learn it as qigong, but that is how I use it

[QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,

Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]

You never heard of those!? I know about those and I'm not a Wing Chun guy. However one of our Wing Chun folks can explain it better than I

 

[yak sao]

[QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,

Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]

Probably more of a terminology thing rather than something you don't do.

I take it to mean staying square to your opponent so that you have equal access to both hands at all times,, centerline and all that, and also the Huen sao movement that is throughout the form to develop wrist flexibility and to strengthen the forearms for better punching stability.

 

[yak sao]

Just so you all know, this conversation got me working on Siu Nim Tao.I

It's like they say, you can take the boy out of Wing Chun but you can't take the WIng Chun out of the boy.
Hey, that can be a new maxim....please see other thread.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's like they say, you can take the boy out of Wing Chun but you can't take the WIng Chun out of the boy.
Hey, that can be a new maxim....please see other thread.

I can say with confidence, if I was younger, before taijiquan and xingyiquan, I would likely be a Wing Chun/JKD guy. But I'm old, arthritic and decrepit and a taijiquan/xingyiquan guy.

Actually the first brief intro I had to JKD, while I was hitting a heavy bag, the instructor asked me, "So how long did you train Wing Chun" and I had told him nothing about my martial arts background prior to that. All I had then and pretty much all I have now, was Siu Nim Tao.

 

[Martial D]

To add to an already great list, I would say that SNT teaches mindfulness. It is important to be aware of what your body is doing and how to execute a movement with proper body mechanics before you have the stress, both physically and emotionally, of a live opponent in front of you.
Once developed, this "SNT state", helps you to stay relaxed when under pressure of a live opponent.

There is an argument for that, but I'm not totally convinced any more.

Yes, this is true if the movements you are drilling mirror live movements, but in the case of slt(snt), that is very difficult to bring about. In my experience once live training is introduced to WC, or any system for that matter, the movements will adapt to that.

 

[Danny T]

[QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,

Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]
Must be a terminology difference. These are highly regarded in every wing chun style I've seen.
6 major gates: Body is sectioned off into 2 upper gates, 2 middle gates, 2 lower gates
Facing is positioning one's self in such a manner your 6 gates are facing the opponent's 3. This allows you to bring most all your weapons to bear verses only one side for the opponent.

Wrist abduction is the final aspect for penetration in punching and using numerous hands as well as in several aspects of the bart jom do.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

6 major gates: Body is sectioned off into 2 upper gates, 2 middle gates, 2 lower gates

Not sure the usage of this definition. Could you give more detail on this?

I have heard

3 gates:

1. wrist gate,
2. elbow gate,
3. shoulder/head gate.

4 sides:

1st side - outside of your right leg.
2nd side - Inside of your right leg.
3rd side - Inside of your left leg.
4th side - outside of your left leg.

2 doors:

1. front door - in front of you. This also include 1 front door (space between arms) and 2 side doors (space outside arms).
2. back door - behind of you.

 

[Highlander]

Must be a terminology difference.

Okay yeah the last two are what I was thinking about too.
Never heard of the six gates tho, atleast I dont recall

 

[yak sao]

Okay yeah the last two are what I was thinking about too.
Never heard of the six gates tho, atleast I dont recall

In WT, it's more of a long pole thing not so much empty hand....At least the way it was taught to me

 

[Danny T]

Not sure the usage of this definition. Could you give more detail on this?

I have heard

3 gates:

1. wrist gate,
2. elbow gate,
3. shoulder/head gate.

4 sides:

1st side - outside of your right leg.
2nd side - Inside of your right leg.
3rd side - Inside of your left leg.
4th side - outside of your left leg.

2 doors:

1. front door - in front of you. This also include 1 front door (space between arms) and 2 side doors (space outside arms).
2. back door - behind of you.

It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.

 

[Highlander]

It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.

Ooo okay. So just splitting the body into sections that define where the hands/feet defend? We definitely talk about this lol.

 

[Danny T]

Ooo okay. So just splitting the body into sections that define where the hands/feet defend? We definitely talk about this lol.

Not just for defending, entering, trapping, and controlling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.

IMO, the depth concept (such as wrist gate, elbow gate, and shoulder gate) should be included. This can make your 6 gates concept from 2D into 3D.

Also a low roundhouse kick to the outside of your opponent's right leg (1st side) vs. to the inside of his right leg (2nd side) will require different set up, hand skill, and follow through.

 

[Danny T]

IMO, the depth concept (such as wrist gate, elbow gate, and shoulder gate) should be included. This can make your 6 gates concept from 2D into 3D.

Also a low roundhouse kick to the outside of your opponent's right leg (1st side) vs. to the inside of his right leg (2nd side) will require different set up, hand skill, and follow through.

I don't disagree. Such is taught as points of contact in SNT and further developed in Chum Kiu, in the Jook Jong training as well as in Biu Jee and the Bart Jom do.