Siu Lim Tao - Proper breathing

[dudewingchun]

The system is taught linearly, giving the illusion of beginner to advanced stages, but really it is all pieces to a puzzle. Once you have the big picture you continue to use each piece. There are no throwaway parts.

A bit off-topic but do you actually do PB VT ? Just wandering cause i was on KFM and saw a post of yours stating that you were not from PBVT, but on this forum you post as if you are quite knowledgeable in it.

 

[LFJ]

I've always been speaking from my own perspective. If it aligns with others it's because we train the same system. The thinking should be clear, one and the same.

 

[KPM]

Yip Man wasn't a Buddhist and didn't believe in Qigong.

You don't have to be Buddhist or believe in Qigong to do a simple mindfulness meditation. I learned the whole concept of settling the mind as part of SNT right from the start in my initial training in Wing Chun. Of course, we didn't do the SNT as slowly as we have been talking about Ip Man doing it!

 

[LFJ]

I don't know what your training purposes are, but we're talking about a guy who enjoyed smoking opium and fighting, not doing Buddhist meditations as a non-Buddhist or developing mystical energy he didn't believe in. SNT is a part of VT fight training.

 

[KPM]

I don't know what your training purposes are, but we're talking about a guy who enjoyed smoking opium and fighting, not doing Buddhist meditations as a non-Buddhist or developing mystical energy he didn't believe in. SNT is a part of VT fight training.

Neither of us were there and neither of us know Ip Man's true motivations. I am saying anyone that took up to an hour to do just the Saam Bai Fut section of the SNT form....going at such an agonizingly slow pace....was likely doing it as a form of meditation. You are saying he was likely doing it as a form of fight training. We'll let other people form their own opinions as to which they think is the most plausible.

 

[guy b.]

You didn't answer my question.

I did answer, here:

I train my elbow in the variety of ways contained in the system

 

[guy b.]

Yeah! What about trampoline artists? High divers?

... or swimmers, maybe? Read Eric's first comment (#3) below:
McGinnis: 5 Training Tips For Sprinters

Or here:
Swim Slower To Go Faster

The point of slow training is to improve technique. It's not the entire training, just a valuable component.

I don't know much about training for swimming, but thanks for posting. Interesting.

 

[guy b.]

Assume that slow training can help beginner to have the correct body movement.

Beginner training stage - slow training
Advance training stage - fast training

For Ip Man during his old age, he still did his slow training, it just doesn't make sense.

Your assumption is too specific. Slow training is not something you grow out of.

 

[guy b.]

What about Olympic sprinters? Do they sprint in slow motion? Since they train explosively/plyometrically...are they developing incorrect musculature?

I am referring to VT, not to sprinting. Refer to the post by Mograph if you would like to learn about the rationale for slow training in sports.

 

[guy b.]

I am saying anyone that took up to an hour to do just the Saam Bai Fut section of the SNT form....going at such an agonizingly slow pace....was likely doing it as a form of meditation. You are saying he was likely doing it as a form of fight training. We'll let other people form their own opinions as to which they think is the most plausible.

Seems a rather clutching at straws kind of explanation, since there are good reasons for slow training which are well known in VT. Most likely YM was training that way for a reason contained within the system, rather than a completely unrelated one. Wouldn't you say?

I don't mind if anyone else would like to think he was meditating; the popularity of wrong opinions doesn't affect my own.

 

[Phobius]

I don't mind if anyone else would like to think he was meditating; the popularity of wrong opinions doesn't affect my own.

Noone is wrong in a matter where truth can not be discovered. You are just as much speculating as everyone else.

For me personally I would say this, doing SNT that long amount of time purely for training elbow. It seems rather illogical. Given age, experience and how his body already has adapted and due to his age will probably not adapt any further.

Second I do not agree that elbow training is needed to be continued that slow as you think, reason being that if you train this often which YM did. You would not need to spend hours for the purpose of maintaining a good elbow structure since it is already there. Just training will maintain such a structure.

If it does not, you are probably doing something very wrong and with a high risk of injuring yourself in the long term. Perhaps something to consider for yourself and your own future. After all we all have a goal to continue training what we do even when growing too old for our own minds to catch up.

 

[LFJ]

@Phobius

Look into modern research on how the brain works, because both of your points are wrong.

One is never too old to learn VT, so long as they are fit for it, but it's not like learning to ride a bike either.

 

[Danny T]

You guys simple love to argue.
Ip Man was an amazing WC man.
Ip Man was also an opium addict.
Ip Man did some things we have no real knowledge of.
For all we know Ip Man may simply have been in a opium induce stupor.

 

[wckf92]

I don't mind if anyone else would like to think he was meditating; the popularity of wrong opinions doesn't affect my own.

 

[guy b.]

Noone is wrong in a matter where truth can not be discovered. You are just as much speculating as everyone else.

Balance of probability means that some opinions are less speculation than others. Not "just as much"

 

[guy b.]

I am sorry it offends you that I am not a relativist

 

[guy b.]

So we have established that most on the forum train wing chun systems which do not contain good reasons for slow training, or for continuing such training beyond a beginner stage. That's ok with me. It should be ok with all of you too, since it is after all what you believe, and you must have reason for doing so. It is nothing to get annoyed about. We can all agree to disagree.

 

[wckf92]

I am sorry it offends you that I am not a relativist

Nope, doesn't offend me at all... just an typical (and anticipated) response is all...

 

[guy b.]

I do not agree that elbow training is needed to be continued that slow as you think, reason being that if you train this often which YM did. You would not need to spend hours for the purpose of maintaining a good elbow structure since it is already there. Just training will maintain such a structure.

While VT is not Tai Chi or Yiquan, both have similar slow movement training methodologies. It is more limited and specific in VT, more general and extensive in TC and YQ. People who are very good at Tai Chi and Yiquan continue slow movement training as long as they continue training, same as in VT. There is a specific reason for it. If you are interested in these systems you train it and continue to train it.

 

[guy b.]

Nope, doesn't offend me at all... just an typical (and anticipated) response is all...

Then I am sorry for being predictably non-relativist. At least I made you smile.