Silat practice in Trieste, Italy!

[Carol]

Pencak Silat in Trieste, some of it Harimau style.

There is a lot here that reminds me of my own school We usually play Indonesian music while we practice.

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[kidswarrior]

Great clips! Thanks, Carol.

 

[ChingChuan]

Yes, it certainly looks very interesting! I didn't know that they also had Silat in Italy (Trieste wasin Italy, right?).

Unfortunately my connection has a data limit or something, now I couldn't watch the entire movie (well, actually, I can, but then my parents will blame me when the limit is reached )

 

[Karambit]

Thanks Carol, I'm starting to like Silat more and more.I've seen great concepts and techniques from Bob Orlando,Joe Simonet and Guru Ray(Young Blood) Cole from FCS.Guru Harley Elmore will be releasing his Maphilindo series soon as well.The preview in Panantukan 2 with him and Guru Chuck Giangreco was impressive.
I like the idea that the concepts are totally applicable to blade work as well.
Since there are no schools in my immediate area, I will be doing the seminar circuit soon

 

[Carol]

Yes, it certainly looks very interesting! I didn't know that they also had Silat in Italy (Trieste wasin Italy, right?).

Unfortunately my connection has a data limit or something, now I couldn't watch the entire movie (well, actually, I can, but then my parents will blame me when the limit is reached )

Yes, Trieste is in Italy. I've never been there but I've worked with people from there. Interesting place, extremely cosmopolitan with a very large univrsity in the center of it all.

I guess I'm surprised to as the Indonesian arts are still gaining in popularity but...I'm very surprised to see our European brothers and sisters enjoying this great art.

 

[Carol]

Thanks Carol, I'm starting to like Silat more and more.I've seen great concepts and techniques from Bob Orlando,Joe Simonet and Guru Ray(Young Blood) Cole from FCS.Guru Harley Elmore will be releasing his Maphilindo series soon as well.The preview in Panantukan 2 with him and Guru Chuck Giangreco was impressive.
I like the idea that the concepts are totally applicable to blade work as well.
Since there are no schools in my immediate area, I will be doing the seminar circuit soon

I've seen Guro Rick Tucci's Maphilindo DVDs and they were outstanding. Unfortunately Silat is difficult to find, I feel very lucky that there is such a good school so close to where I am.

Drop me a PM anytime if you are interested in coming out for some Silat training. Guro Mike really knows his stuff.

 

[Karambit]

I've seen Guro Rick Tucci's Maphilindo DVDs and they were outstanding. Unfortunately Silat is difficult to find, I feel very lucky that there is such a good school so close to where I am.

Drop me a PM anytime if you are interested in coming out for some Silat training. Guro Mike really knows his stuff.

I sure will. Thanks for the invite:ultracool

 

[ksmaguro]

Karambit-
I can highly recommend the arts of Pencak Silat Pertempuran ( www.combat-silat.net ) excellent distance learning and Silat Zulfikari ( http://www.zulfakr.com/ ).
If you are hitting the seminar circuit check out the Spring and Fall Gatherings in Michigan as well as the PSP Keluarga the first weekend in August.
Both are listed in the Seminar section in this forum.

 

[Karambit]

Karambit-
I can highly recommend the arts of Pencak Silat Pertempuran ( www.combat-silat.net ) excellent distance learning and Silat Zulfikari ( http://www.zulfakr.com/ ).
If you are hitting the seminar circuit check out the Spring and Fall Gatherings in Michigan as well as the PSP Keluarga the first weekend in August.
Both are listed in the Seminar section in this forum.

Thanks Jay, I like the PSP curriculum.I'd like to check out the gatherings. I appreciate the links

 

[tellner]

Second the recommendations of Zul Fikar and of Bob Orlando. Mushtaq is the living embodiment of the Capoeira saying "Old holes have snakes in them". And Bob has a great way of explaining complicated things in a way which is easy to understand. That's a rare skill. Of course I'll chat up my own teacher's stuff - just as soon as his tapes come back into print And I do not recommend Joe Simonet's Silat tapes. They are simply no good.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have to second Bob Orlando's ability to break things down. When we had him up here to my Training Hall he was simply great!

 

[SilatFan]

And I do not recommend Joe Simonet's Silat tapes. They are simply no good.

Wow Tellner. That’s pretty harsh. It's my understanding that Simonet is currently the most capable fighter to come out of the DeThouras Serak group. Could you elaborate on what is so bad regarding Simonet’s tapes?

 

[tellner]

Wow Tellner. That’s pretty harsh. It's my understanding that Simonet is currently the most capable fighter to come out of the DeThouras Serak group. Could you elaborate on what is so bad regarding Simonet’s tapes?

Well, let's start with his performance of the juru-juru in his first set of tapes. Much of it is wrong, dead wrong. The severe lean forward is simply bad for your back. His interpretation of the langka-langka is largely backwards. His "shoes on a snake" comment and the stuff surrounding it was plain stupid. The way he used distance, the weird overturned punch, the way he misused sweeps, his fundamental misunderstanding of what juru juru are about, supposedly deconstructing Sera without having ever actually studied it - the weasel wording at the beginning of his first tape wasn't terribly subtle - and so on. And on. How much more do you want? I spent twenty hours going through just his first two Sera tapes, stopping, going back, looking at them in detail. I wasn't terribly impressed. That's leaving aside the rather disturbing way they were arranged. Six-foot plus bodybuilder spends a couple hours tossing around five-foot-and-a-fraction woman. It would have been a lot more convincing if it had been the other way around once or twice.

If he's going to enlighten the rest of us about what the curriculum is "really" hiding it would help if he could at least perform it correctly. In the tapes I saw he doesn't. And it's not just a "my teacher showed it a little differently" thing. There are fundamental mistakes throughout. There's no doubt whatsoever that he completed the Tongkat program and got a legitimate black belt in it. That's not easy, and more power to him. He did not do the same in Serak. Even a really good martial artist would take at least a few years of instruction to get the whole thing. Mr. Simonet didn't have the opportunity to put in that time.

As for the "best fighter out of the De Thoaurs Serak group" there's a couple who would not have to give up pride of place. Consider Cliff Stewart just as an example.

He may well be a superb fighter. His Kenpo, Kali and Wing Chun may be top notch. His Serak tapes were bad. Sorry. That's my from-the-heart honest opinion.

 

[SilatFan]

“Well, let's start with his performance of the juru-juru in his first set of tapes. Much of it is wrong, dead wrong. The severe lean forward is simply bad for your back. His interpretation of the langka-langka is largely backwards. His "shoes on a snake" comment and the stuff surrounding it was plain stupid. The way he used distance, the weird overturned punch, the way he misused sweeps, his fundamental misunderstanding of what juru juru are about, supposedly deconstructing Sera without having ever actually studied it - the weasel wording at the beginning of his first tape wasn't terribly subtle - and so on. And on. How much more do you want? I spent twenty hours going through just his first two Sera tapes, stopping, going back, looking at them in detail. I wasn't terribly impressed. That's leaving aside the rather disturbing way they were arranged. Six-foot plus bodybuilder spends a couple hours tossing around five-foot-and-a-fraction woman. It would have been a lot more convincing if it had been the other way around once or twice.”

Lol!!! The least you could do would be to give some specific examples of technical errors and not just respond with an emotionally charged and biased reply with no specific instances of inconsistencies in his tapes (WARNING: That’s sarcasm lest anyone think I am serious).

To be honest it always did bother me to see Simonet smack Hernandez around in his videos but I finally realized that it is the new millennium and women are equals plus she definitely is an accomplished martial artist and can handle playing uke. And she is probably the most talented female martial artist I’ve seen (though not in person) yet.

Tellner, all the technical and personal differences aside, would you say that his material is not good or just not good for “authentic” Sera(k)?

“As for the "best fighter out of the De Thoaurs Serak group" there's a couple who would not have to give up pride of place. Consider Cliff Stewart just as an example.”

Guru Stewart is definitely excellent (a ton of training and crazy life experiences). But he’s also another physically big guy. I don’t see – or hear of anyone smaller being more capable – despite Simonet’s poor knowledge of Serak. It’s a variable a person looks at when reviewing different practitioners and their material.

“That's my from-the-heart honest opinion.”
And I thank you for them. I’d prefer when people cut to the chase and say what they think/know.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Carol thanks for the video clips they were great!

 

[kidswarrior]

Pencak Silat in Trieste, some of it Harimau style.

There is a lot here that reminds me of my own school We usually play Indonesian music while we practice.

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Carol, just watched these clips again, and noticed a couple of things that really appeal to me. All practice is slow (Practice slow, to go fast--Jimmy Woo). All fights go to the gournd--for the opponent (so much for grappling skills, tho the art may have these, don't know. But doesn't appear to need much, from what I've seen). The defender's entire body weight/strength is used to attack vital points of the attacker (neck, shoulders, elbows, legs).

Darn it, I'll just say it: reminds me a lot of San Soo. Do you also get the occasional rube off the street who walks in and says to your instructor or one of the senior students, Let's spar? :lfao: Maybe this death wish should be given its own new category of suicide: Death by Guro/Grand Master.

Thanks again for posting these clips, and the followup info.

 

[Carol]

Carol, just watched these clips again, and noticed a couple of things that really appeal to me. All practice is slow (Practice slow, to go fast--Jimmy Woo).

Jimmy Woo was right, it's practiced slow for precision and its also practiced slow for safety. Plus even in a real fight it doesn't take a tremendous amount of speed and force to do some of the moves.

All fights go to the gournd--for the opponent (so much for grappling skills, tho the art may have these, don't know. But doesn't appear to need much, from what I've seen).

We don't grapple in Silat, we dominate There is ground work, yes...the attacker goes to the ground, the defender has control. The opening moves in each clip are one example of that.

The defender's entire body weight/strength is used to attack vital points of the attacker (neck, shoulders, elbows, legs).

And don't forget the knives. Silat is a bladed art, watch the clip again and picture the defenders with a blade in each hand.

Darn it, I'll just say it: reminds me a lot of San Soo. Do you also get the occasional rube off the street who walks in and says to your instructor or one of the senior students, Let's spar? :lfao: Maybe this death wish should be given its own new category of suicide: Death by Guro/Grand Master.

What I have heard is that the school receives phone calls from random sources inquiring as to whether they [meaning: my instructors] are Muslim (they aren't). Which...is a whole 'nother dynamic to the art.

 

[tellner]

To be honest it always did bother me to see Simonet smack Hernandez around in his videos but I finally realized that it is the new millennium and women are equals plus she definitely is an accomplished martial artist and can handle playing uke. And she is probably the most talented female martial artist I’ve seen (though not in person) yet.

She can definitely handle the pressure. My emotional reaction to women getting hit aside the bothersome thing is that it was all a large strong person demonstrating on a smaller, weaker person. The technique may have been good. It would be more convincing to see it work the other way around.

Tellner, all the technical and personal differences aside, would you say that his material is not good or just not good for “authentic” Sera(k)?

Hmm, that's a tough one. I'd say that as Silat tapes go in general and Sera / Serak / Cerahqueh material in specific it's not great. It really doesn't give a fair representation of the material although it at least gets a little into the "why" as well as the "what". This puts it a step or two ahead of most martial arts tapes.

Guru Stewart is definitely excellent (a ton of training and crazy life experiences). But he’s also another physically big guy. I don’t see – or hear of anyone smaller being more capable – despite Simonet’s poor knowledge of Serak. It’s a variable a person looks at when reviewing different practitioners and their material.

There's a few. Mostly you don't hear about them. Willem has a number of long time students - Morin, Moffet, Goodwin and a ton of others I've never heard of. A lot of them are really good at what they do. Bob Vannatta was with Victor for decades. Everyone who's crossed hands with him says he knows his stuff and is a tough S.O.B. which I mean in the most complimentary way. I don't know any of Maurice's people personally. As for Paul? Martin Biejers was very good, although I hear he decided to have a life rather than dedicating it to martial arts My own teacher, Steve Plinck, isn't exactly shabby. There are others, most of whom are doing other things now. But they're out there.

It would be tough to say who is "the best fighter the de Thouars' turned out". There certainly isn't any clear champion.

 

[kidswarrior]

even in a real fight it doesn't take a tremendous amount of speed and force to do some of the moves.

Check.

We don't grapple in Silat, we dominate There is ground work, yes...the attacker goes to the ground, the defender has control.

Check.

And don't forget the knives. Silat is a bladed art, watch the clip again and picture the defenders with a blade in each hand.

Now you're just trying to give me nightmares. Good thing I was a military medic....



What I have heard is that the school receives phone calls from random sources inquiring as to whether they [meaning: my instructors] are Muslim (they aren't). Which...is a whole 'nother dynamic to the art.[/quote]

 

[OUMoose]

Those were awesome clips! Thanks Carol!

One of the movements in the 2nd clip was kind of scary. The takedown with the leg extended would have to be done very carefully I would think. If not, at the angle you're bringing down the target, it looked like there was a high probabilty their body weight would end up on your knee. If your leg wasn't completely parallel with the ground, that translates into you blowing out your own knee on the way down. Ouchie.

As with everything else, practice would reduce the chance of that happening obviously, but that's what jumped out at me. YMMV.