Shuai Jiao
- Thread starter JamesGarr
- Start date
Cool! What are the rules?
- Thread Starter
- #3
Not sure what their sparring rules are, or what restrictions we will have. I know very little about it, and I'm looking forward to learning a lot at the seminar. This was just linked to show us an example of shaui jao to give us something to think about. Looks like in that video there is a rule against striking though, judging from the reaction when the one guy slaps the other on the head. 
Heh. Looks like Sumo one-fall rules with vaguely Judo-ish technique, but a definite Chinese feel to it.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Shuaijiao is the oldest continuous Martial Art still in existence, meaning it started a long time ago and has not stopped.
The basic idea is to hit the other guy with the biggest thing you can find, the planet.
Throws tend to be very hard, nothing like Sumo actually, and the throws tend to be harder than Judo.
Rules depend on where the match is.
Shuaijiao
You will find some Shuaijiao in all CMA syles to varying degrees
NY Shuaijiao
United States Shuai-Chiao Association
http://www.shuai-chiao.org/
International Shuai Jiao Rules for Tournament
http://www.esju.org/International Shuai Jiao Rules - Final - September 2007.pdf
Shuai Jiao (Traditional Chinese Wrestling) Rules
http://www.kuoshu.co.uk/Shuai Jiao Rules.pdf
The basic idea is to hit the other guy with the biggest thing you can find, the planet.
Throws tend to be very hard, nothing like Sumo actually, and the throws tend to be harder than Judo.
Rules depend on where the match is.
Shuaijiao
You will find some Shuaijiao in all CMA syles to varying degrees
NY Shuaijiao
United States Shuai-Chiao Association
http://www.shuai-chiao.org/
International Shuai Jiao Rules for Tournament
http://www.esju.org/International Shuai Jiao Rules - Final - September 2007.pdf
Shuai Jiao (Traditional Chinese Wrestling) Rules
http://www.kuoshu.co.uk/Shuai Jiao Rules.pdf
Yep... all CMA's have the following four components. Obviously varying to degree, but all there ...
Shuai --> Throwing
Da --> Striking
Ti --> Kicking
Na --> Controlling
Shuai --> Throwing
Da --> Striking
Ti --> Kicking
Na --> Controlling
The SC rules are simple, any 2 points of your body besides your feet touch the ground, you loss that round. If both fall, the person on top wins that round.
WC_lun
Senior Master
I know this has been said, but the throws are very hard impact and come from all kinds of crazy angles. Its very interesting to experience. I prefer watching it more now
What do they do by way of breakfalls/rolling? Or do you just take the fall you're given? Weird angles can make for broken bones--fine in self-defense but less so in competition.
The SC breakfall is different from the Judo breakfall. The simple guideline is "never allow your head to hit the hard ground". In order to do so, you have to use one of your arms as soft pillow, and another arm to protech your head in case your opponent's elbow or knee smash into your head. You also try to use your triangle back shoulder muscle to land. You should also bend your legs in different angles so your knees won't hit each other.
In sport, you try to help your opponent to have safe landing. If you give a "pull", most likely your opponent's head won't hit the ground. In combat, that will be a complete different story.
In sport, you try to help your opponent to have safe landing. If you give a "pull", most likely your opponent's head won't hit the ground. In combat, that will be a complete different story.
Doomx2001
Green Belt
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Are there any online videos of Shuai Jiao practitioners practicing breakfalls?
WC_lun
Senior Master
This was also practiced by the Mongols. It was not uncommon for the competitors to get broken bones and sometimes even die from the throws. Guess that solves rather quickly who is the winner
The description of why they fall like they do does make sense--though Judo, as a sport, also does what's good for them. Interesting stuff.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
This was also practiced by the Mongols. It was not uncommon for the competitors to get broken bones and sometimes even die from the throws. Guess that solves rather quickly who is the winner
The Mongols practiced Bökh not Shuaijiao but you are correct, Bökh is pretty hard core.It is my understanding that Bökh translates as Durability so I guess if you are not durable in a Bökh match....you loose
The SC break fall is done for the following concerns.
- SC is done on the outdoor dirt ground.
- When your body is spinning in the air and you don't know which part of your body may land, you have to protect your head.
- As long as your skull is not cracked, you will survive.
- You need to use one arm as soft pillow to protect the back of your head, and another arm to protect the front of your head from your opponent's knee, elbow dropping.
In China, the SC branches include:
- Beijing
- Tiengjin
- Baoding
- ShangXi
- Yi minority race
- Mongolian
On October, 1935, the Mongolian wrestling team visted Shanghai. It was 1 round match.
1st round - Mongolian wrestler 敖爾圖那蘇圖 against Beijing wrestler 魏德海, 魏 losed.
2nd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴圖爾 against Beijing wrestler 單世俊,單 losed.
3rd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴達瑪 against Shanghai wrestler 李振清, 李 losed.
4th round - Mongolian wrestler 布和 against Tienjing wrestler 畢鳳亭, 畢 losed.
5th round - Mongolian wrestler 薩瑪達恩札木 against Tienjing wrestler 卜恩富, 卜 losed.
Mongolian wrestlers won all 5 matches. The reason were:
- Monglian wrestlers were in better physical shape.
- Mongolian wrestler's jack is made of leather with metal nails on it. It's very hard to grab. Compare to Chinese wrestler's jacket which is made of cotton and easy to grab.
1935年10月，民國“第六屆全國運動會”（10月10日至20日在上海市舉行），國術組邀請蒙古摔角隊，來上海參加友誼比賽，蒙古跤手在當地被稱為“草原雄鷹”。10月13日下午一時許進行了一場表演賽。上場後，隊員上身穿黑皮製成的摔角衣，跤衣的圍頸、袖口、胸前均釘白銅釘而成旋螺形，背部釘有白銅壽字，也有釘以佛像者。其褲有紅有白，並有圖案形的花紋，頸中套有紅、黃色條帶（每獲一次那達慕比賽冠軍，獎勵一條頸帶，頸帶 ​​越多越強）一直懸至胸前，足蹬長筒高靴。 出場時，以舞蹈開導，雙方每舉足互踢時，發出清脆的劈啪之聲，來回角逐，饒有興趣，再加之穿著別緻，引起全場的注意。 次日（14日），蒙古摔角手，穿著本民族的摔角裝束與各地摔角選手作友誼比賽，規則為一跤勝負制。第一對為敖爾圖那蘇圖（蒙）對魏德海（北平）。魏德海是北平跤場藝人，曾與沈友三、寶善林合作賣藝，是京城摔角高手之一。兩位選手身材皆是魁梧奇偉，一經交手，不到一個回合魏即被敖傾倒於地。第二對為巴圖爾（蒙）對單世俊（北平）。單世俊是北平跤場藝人，曾與熊德山合作賣藝，後自己另砌爐灶，設場獻技，為京城摔角高手之一。單入場時，他為能品嚐蒙古人的技藝，故與蒙人相對時，也手舞足蹈，東搖西擺地走起了“黃瓜架”，以示歡欣之意。雙方一開交，單想扭住巴圖爾的衣角，但蒙人摔角衣既釘滿銅釘，又是皮革所製，所以無法抓握，反而被巴圖爾逮住衣背，反手一推，單即不支倒地。第三對為巴達瑪（蒙）對李振清（滬），李亦不到一個回合而倒地。 此時，在旁有位老將畢鳳亭，看到蒙人如此厲害，按捺不住，即自告奮勇地挺身出場，意與蒙人決一高低，以雪三人戰敗之恥，應戰者為布和（蒙）。警笛一響，畢即撲前搶把，相持良久，畢尚能支持，於是觀眾為其鼓掌加油。不幸老將偶一不慎，被布和運用蠻力，將畢揮倒地上，畢老遂氣憤而退。第五對為薩瑪達恩札木（蒙）對卜恩富（河北）。卜恩富（又名卜六），是津門摔角高手，曾拜清末善撲營二等撲戶崔秀峰為師，得以真傳，多次榮獲全國性摔角比賽冠軍。卜恩富比蒙人較為瘦小，自知非力量能取勝，必走智取之道。故卜先採取守勢，但蒙人力大如牛，抓住卜的雙袖，將卜猛拖， ​​卜雖幾入危境，但巧妙應付並未倒地，卜仍等待機會。當蔔一度將薩衣袖抓住，並用頭頂住薩的前胸，同時再起右腳，勾住薩左腳，向左轉體想用挑勾子動作，將薩摔倒，但薩體力甚大，反乘此機會，運用全身壓向卜身，兩人同時倒地，而卜壓倒在下，又告失敗。嗣後，各地選手均裹足不前，雖尚有兩次摔角，但終告失利。究其失敗原因，不盡體力不佳，還有蒙人所穿摔角服裝均係特製，使對方極難抓握，故有力難用，有技難施。 （摘自《話說摔跤與上海》）
In October 1935, the Republic of China "VI National Games" (held in Shanghai in October 10), martial arts group invited Mongolia wrestling team to Shanghai to participate in friendly matches, Mongolia slipped his hand on the ground are called "steppe Eagle." October 13 at about one o'clock in the afternoon was an exhibition match. After the game, players wore black bark on wrestling clothing, fall clothing around neck, cuffs and chest are nails white copper nails and into a revolving screw-shaped, nails have nickel Silver birthday words on the back, there are nailed to Buddha. Their pants are red and white, patterns and pattern-shaped, neck has red, yellow stripe (NADAM Championship every been, rewarding a neck belt, neck with more strong) had been suspended to chest, foot pedal long tube high boots. When you play, dance channel, when each of the two parties adequate cross-kick, make a sharp crack sound, race back and forth, with keen interest, along with wearing a chic, attracted the attention of the audience. The following day (14th), Mongolia wrester, wearing their national wrestling attire and wrestling around players for friendly matches, rules for a fall victory or defeat. First pair of Ao Er tunasutu (Mongolia) to Wei Dehai (Peking). Wei Dehai is Peking falls artist, collaboration with Shen Yousan, baoshanlin the tightrope, is one of the wrestling masters in Beijing. Two tall players are tall and broad shouldered, fight, being less than a round, Wei AO dumped to the ground. Second pair of Batoul (Mongolia) to Dan Shijun (Peking). Dan Shijun was Peking falls artist, had the tightrope in cooperation with Xiong Deshan, masonry stoves themselves after another, set field will compete, as one of the Beijing wrestling master. Single admission, he can taste Mongolia people's skills, as opposed to a mengren time, dancing, East shakes Western swing to go the "cucumber", show their delight. Both sides kaijiao, wants to twist Batoul the edge of the two ends of the lower hem of a gown, but mengren wrestling clothing nailed both full copper nail, leather, it is impossible to grip, but is caught by Batoul clothes back, backhand push, that does not collapse. Third of Ba Dama (Mongolia) on Li Zhenqing (Shanghai), and has a round but fell to Lee. At this point, a veteran Bi Fengting, see mengren so badly, to incessantly that volunteered to come forward to appearances, with a high and low mengren, snow three shames of defeat, challenge to Buhe (Mongolia). Siren rang, completed before the head-bashing robbery, stalemate, and was able to support, so the audience for their applause refueling. Veteran unfortunately once in a while inadvertently, cloth, and the use of brute force, on lying, old was angry and back. Samadaen v wood (Mongolia) on the Bu Enfu (Hebei). Bu Enfu (also known as BU VI), is Jinmen wrestling master, thanks to good governance in the late Qing Pu Pu Cui Xiufeng as a teacher in Camp II, essence be taught, repeatedly won national wrestling champion. Bu En rich than mengren more thin, knowing not to win, will take the road of taking. BU defensive, but the Mongolian human big as a cow, seize the sleeves BU, Bu Meng, BU few into danger, but clever does not collapse, BU is still waiting for the chance. When BU SA sleeves and grab, and head of the tube SA-chest, while his right foot, hook-SA left foot, pick a hook to the left wanted to use actions, SA fell, but SA great physical strength, anti-took this opportunity to apply systemic pressure to BU, two people fell, BU under the overwhelming, also failed. Subsequently, the players are deterred from around, although there are still two in wrestling, but lost to the certified. Its failure, not the poor physical, also mengren wear wrestling clothes are specially made, the other is extremely difficult to grasp, so strong hard to use, hard to effect. (Taken from the words of wrestling and Shanghai)
- SC is done on the outdoor dirt ground.
- When your body is spinning in the air and you don't know which part of your body may land, you have to protect your head.
- As long as your skull is not cracked, you will survive.
- You need to use one arm as soft pillow to protect the back of your head, and another arm to protect the front of your head from your opponent's knee, elbow dropping.
In China, the SC branches include:
- Beijing
- Tiengjin
- Baoding
- ShangXi
- Yi minority race
- Mongolian
On October, 1935, the Mongolian wrestling team visted Shanghai. It was 1 round match.
1st round - Mongolian wrestler 敖爾圖那蘇圖 against Beijing wrestler 魏德海, 魏 losed.
2nd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴圖爾 against Beijing wrestler 單世俊,單 losed.
3rd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴達瑪 against Shanghai wrestler 李振清, 李 losed.
4th round - Mongolian wrestler 布和 against Tienjing wrestler 畢鳳亭, 畢 losed.
5th round - Mongolian wrestler 薩瑪達恩札木 against Tienjing wrestler 卜恩富, 卜 losed.
Mongolian wrestlers won all 5 matches. The reason were:
- Monglian wrestlers were in better physical shape.
- Mongolian wrestler's jack is made of leather with metal nails on it. It's very hard to grab. Compare to Chinese wrestler's jacket which is made of cotton and easy to grab.
1935年10月，民國“第六屆全國運動會”（10月10日至20日在上海市舉行），國術組邀請蒙古摔角隊，來上海參加友誼比賽，蒙古跤手在當地被稱為“草原雄鷹”。10月13日下午一時許進行了一場表演賽。上場後，隊員上身穿黑皮製成的摔角衣，跤衣的圍頸、袖口、胸前均釘白銅釘而成旋螺形，背部釘有白銅壽字，也有釘以佛像者。其褲有紅有白，並有圖案形的花紋，頸中套有紅、黃色條帶（每獲一次那達慕比賽冠軍，獎勵一條頸帶，頸帶 ​​越多越強）一直懸至胸前，足蹬長筒高靴。 出場時，以舞蹈開導，雙方每舉足互踢時，發出清脆的劈啪之聲，來回角逐，饒有興趣，再加之穿著別緻，引起全場的注意。 次日（14日），蒙古摔角手，穿著本民族的摔角裝束與各地摔角選手作友誼比賽，規則為一跤勝負制。第一對為敖爾圖那蘇圖（蒙）對魏德海（北平）。魏德海是北平跤場藝人，曾與沈友三、寶善林合作賣藝，是京城摔角高手之一。兩位選手身材皆是魁梧奇偉，一經交手，不到一個回合魏即被敖傾倒於地。第二對為巴圖爾（蒙）對單世俊（北平）。單世俊是北平跤場藝人，曾與熊德山合作賣藝，後自己另砌爐灶，設場獻技，為京城摔角高手之一。單入場時，他為能品嚐蒙古人的技藝，故與蒙人相對時，也手舞足蹈，東搖西擺地走起了“黃瓜架”，以示歡欣之意。雙方一開交，單想扭住巴圖爾的衣角，但蒙人摔角衣既釘滿銅釘，又是皮革所製，所以無法抓握，反而被巴圖爾逮住衣背，反手一推，單即不支倒地。第三對為巴達瑪（蒙）對李振清（滬），李亦不到一個回合而倒地。 此時，在旁有位老將畢鳳亭，看到蒙人如此厲害，按捺不住，即自告奮勇地挺身出場，意與蒙人決一高低，以雪三人戰敗之恥，應戰者為布和（蒙）。警笛一響，畢即撲前搶把，相持良久，畢尚能支持，於是觀眾為其鼓掌加油。不幸老將偶一不慎，被布和運用蠻力，將畢揮倒地上，畢老遂氣憤而退。第五對為薩瑪達恩札木（蒙）對卜恩富（河北）。卜恩富（又名卜六），是津門摔角高手，曾拜清末善撲營二等撲戶崔秀峰為師，得以真傳，多次榮獲全國性摔角比賽冠軍。卜恩富比蒙人較為瘦小，自知非力量能取勝，必走智取之道。故卜先採取守勢，但蒙人力大如牛，抓住卜的雙袖，將卜猛拖， ​​卜雖幾入危境，但巧妙應付並未倒地，卜仍等待機會。當蔔一度將薩衣袖抓住，並用頭頂住薩的前胸，同時再起右腳，勾住薩左腳，向左轉體想用挑勾子動作，將薩摔倒，但薩體力甚大，反乘此機會，運用全身壓向卜身，兩人同時倒地，而卜壓倒在下，又告失敗。嗣後，各地選手均裹足不前，雖尚有兩次摔角，但終告失利。究其失敗原因，不盡體力不佳，還有蒙人所穿摔角服裝均係特製，使對方極難抓握，故有力難用，有技難施。 （摘自《話說摔跤與上海》）
In October 1935, the Republic of China "VI National Games" (held in Shanghai in October 10), martial arts group invited Mongolia wrestling team to Shanghai to participate in friendly matches, Mongolia slipped his hand on the ground are called "steppe Eagle." October 13 at about one o'clock in the afternoon was an exhibition match. After the game, players wore black bark on wrestling clothing, fall clothing around neck, cuffs and chest are nails white copper nails and into a revolving screw-shaped, nails have nickel Silver birthday words on the back, there are nailed to Buddha. Their pants are red and white, patterns and pattern-shaped, neck has red, yellow stripe (NADAM Championship every been, rewarding a neck belt, neck with more strong) had been suspended to chest, foot pedal long tube high boots. When you play, dance channel, when each of the two parties adequate cross-kick, make a sharp crack sound, race back and forth, with keen interest, along with wearing a chic, attracted the attention of the audience. The following day (14th), Mongolia wrester, wearing their national wrestling attire and wrestling around players for friendly matches, rules for a fall victory or defeat. First pair of Ao Er tunasutu (Mongolia) to Wei Dehai (Peking). Wei Dehai is Peking falls artist, collaboration with Shen Yousan, baoshanlin the tightrope, is one of the wrestling masters in Beijing. Two tall players are tall and broad shouldered, fight, being less than a round, Wei AO dumped to the ground. Second pair of Batoul (Mongolia) to Dan Shijun (Peking). Dan Shijun was Peking falls artist, had the tightrope in cooperation with Xiong Deshan, masonry stoves themselves after another, set field will compete, as one of the Beijing wrestling master. Single admission, he can taste Mongolia people's skills, as opposed to a mengren time, dancing, East shakes Western swing to go the "cucumber", show their delight. Both sides kaijiao, wants to twist Batoul the edge of the two ends of the lower hem of a gown, but mengren wrestling clothing nailed both full copper nail, leather, it is impossible to grip, but is caught by Batoul clothes back, backhand push, that does not collapse. Third of Ba Dama (Mongolia) on Li Zhenqing (Shanghai), and has a round but fell to Lee. At this point, a veteran Bi Fengting, see mengren so badly, to incessantly that volunteered to come forward to appearances, with a high and low mengren, snow three shames of defeat, challenge to Buhe (Mongolia). Siren rang, completed before the head-bashing robbery, stalemate, and was able to support, so the audience for their applause refueling. Veteran unfortunately once in a while inadvertently, cloth, and the use of brute force, on lying, old was angry and back. Samadaen v wood (Mongolia) on the Bu Enfu (Hebei). Bu Enfu (also known as BU VI), is Jinmen wrestling master, thanks to good governance in the late Qing Pu Pu Cui Xiufeng as a teacher in Camp II, essence be taught, repeatedly won national wrestling champion. Bu En rich than mengren more thin, knowing not to win, will take the road of taking. BU defensive, but the Mongolian human big as a cow, seize the sleeves BU, Bu Meng, BU few into danger, but clever does not collapse, BU is still waiting for the chance. When BU SA sleeves and grab, and head of the tube SA-chest, while his right foot, hook-SA left foot, pick a hook to the left wanted to use actions, SA fell, but SA great physical strength, anti-took this opportunity to apply systemic pressure to BU, two people fell, BU under the overwhelming, also failed. Subsequently, the players are deterred from around, although there are still two in wrestling, but lost to the certified. Its failure, not the poor physical, also mengren wear wrestling clothes are specially made, the other is extremely difficult to grasp, so strong hard to use, hard to effect. (Taken from the words of wrestling and Shanghai)
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
There used to be a lot of videos on YouTube from one of the Beijing groups (at least I think it was Beijing) and how they train, I may have even linked a few to MT a few years ago. I have not looked and they may still be there. They were not staged they were training films someone did during training in a street someplace
This is a Chinese produced "training/how to" kind of Shuaijiao video
This is a Chinese produced "training/how to" kind of Shuaijiao video
Last edited by a moderator:
You try to help your opponent to have safe landing. At the end of your throw, you always give a bit pulling. This way your opponent's head will always be off the ground.
The Bökh and Shuaijiao were integrated since the Ming dynasty. The founder of the Baoding style SC (the style that I train) were from 2 Mongolian brothers (some said they were Uighurs). In either cases, the SC system in China has nothing to do with the majority Chinese Han race.
保定摔跤是從明朝初年傳入的，根據有關碑刻記載明建文年間，有蒙古族兄弟二人，老大布彥不花，老二布呼爾皈依伊斯蘭教，跟隨燕王朱棣南征北戰，立下汗馬功勞，朱棣稱帝后封二人為『千戶』，賜姓平，分取名毅良、毅清，並在保定平嘉胡同建造府第，就是人們後來就俗稱平家胡同。】（此段甚多是移花接木）平家二兄弟（此平家與平大師敬一家族並無任何關連，平大師敬一家族為維吾爾族塞外移入）不僅善於馬上征戰，而且精通跤術。
Baoding wrestling is from Ming dynasty early incoming of, under about inscriptions recorded Ming Jianwen years, has Mongolian brothers II people, laodabuyan not spent, second buhuer converted to Islam, followed Yan King Zhu di draft, State Xia accomplishments, Zhu di proclaim oneself Emperor Hou inside front cover human "thousand households", gives last name flat, points named Yi benign, and Yi Qing, and in Baoding flat Ka alley construction mansion, is people later on commonly known as flat home alley. "(This very much is a graft) two brothers (not in any way connected with the master Keiichi family, master Keiichi family beyond the Uighurs move) not only immediately at war, and well-versed in fall.
http://www.changshuaijiao.org/index.php?pageSet=essay&includePath=read&rssRead=5,25,25
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
All styles; Beijing, Tianjin, Baoding, Shanxi are combined with Bökh? and do they know this in Nei Mongol
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All styles; Beijing, Tianjin, Baoding, Shanxi are combined with Bökh? and do they know this in Nei Mongol
I'm not sure about other SC branches. Onething for sure is the art of SC is only trained within the muslim Chinese monority race. If you ask any normal Chinese Han people, that person may not even know what SC is.
Mongolian Wrestling, also known as Boke, or Bokh in the Mongol tongue, is a rugged hand-to-hand sport, relying more on raw physical power than a wide variety of techniques. Historically, Mongolian Wrestling is reputed to have influenced Chinese wrestling with its power techniques.
The basic premise behind Bokh is to force an opponent to touch any part of their body other than the feet to the ground, placing them in a position of inferiority. This kind of training served the Mongol hordes well in their conquests, earning them a reputation as fierce soldiers on foot and on horseback. It was this type of military might that allowed Ganghis Khan to Conquer China at the end of the Sung Dynasty in 1127.
