Should "running" be part of your MA training?

[jobo]

id sooner have a best smile award, than a hardest path

but your point is about one of the things that perplex me about ma against most other athletic activities. When I did my class 1 swimming certificate for instance, I had to dive for a brick, then swim various strokes in a pair of PJs. I couldn't do brest stroke properly, so they said sorry, you don't get an award. It's the same with all the others I can think off, can't do the isometric bars, no gymnastics medal, cant throw a javelin no decathlons medal . can't do a passable passodobly, no dancing medal, it seems the only athletic event where if you cant meet the standard, they change the standard and give you an award anyway

Well, it depends what the point of the standard is. In my case, I'm not trying to build great Aikidoka. I'm training people to use the art to defend themselves. If they can't do part of it because of some limitation, I make sure they can accomplish what should be accomplished (the level of competency). If I were trying to produce first class practitioners of NGA, then I'd be really strict on their ability to perform the art, but the art is the vehicle, not the point of the training.

yes bit you've set a minimum standard, then revise it downwards if they cant meet it. And set a new minimum standard then can reach. It makes the whole thing pointless, you may just as well ask them what them what they can do and give them the grade. The fact that its for self defence makes it more imperative that they get a frank assessment of their abilities

 

[Xue Sheng]

who have accused?,I mearly said I wouldn't accept a sympathy belt, not that any particular individual had such. Seems I might have hit a nerve here

Intersting response, may want to reread your post that kicked this all off.

Oh and for the record, I'm a traditional CMA guy, we don't have belt ranks, nor do we care about them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes bit you've set a minimum standard, then revise it downwards if they cant meet it. And set a new minimum standard then can reach. It makes the whole thing pointless, you may just as well ask them what them what they can do and give them the grade. The fact that its for self defence makes it more imperative that they get a frank assessment of their abilities

Not downward. Differently. I set a standard that is designed to reflect the goal. If they can't meet that standard because of a limitation, I have to evaluate their ability to meet the overall goal, absent that standard. It doesn't make things pointless, at all. They don't get to decide the evaluation points - that's my job.

You seem to really want me to be wrong on something. Keep looking - I'm definitely wrong at times, so you're bound to find something that suits your needs.

 

[Xue Sheng]

finding a fat bloke that can run a bit is hardly indicative of fat people general being fast on their feet.
you want a defintion of unfit? Someone who fall below the 4 th quartile of any of the numerous fitness indexis for their age
obviously unfit you would put your last pound on the fact they can't run a 10 minute mile bench press their own weight or of manage 5 mins of skipping

hmm, I can't run a 10 minute mile, as a matter of fact I really can't run much at all, don't much care about weights anymore and skipping is right out...guess I'm obviously unfit.

Now if you will excuse me I have to log off to go do my 40 minute Yoga routine and do at least 20 minutes on my stationary bike. And if I have time I will have to spend at least 10 to 30 minutes on my forms.... that is what us unfit guys do.

 

[jobo]

Not downward. Differently. I set a standard that is designed to reflect the goal. If they can't meet that standard because of a limitation, I have to evaluate their ability to meet the overall goal, absent that standard. It doesn't make things pointless, at all. They don't get to decide the evaluation points - that's my job.

You seem to really want me to be wrong on something. Keep looking - I'm definitely wrong at times, so you're bound to find something that suits your needs.

well they do sort of, if they cant do a skill, you remove the skill of the test, how is that not revising downwards?

 

[jobo]

hmm, I can't run a 10 minute mile, as a matter of fact I really can't run much at all, don't much care about weights anymore and skipping is right out...guess I'm obviously unfit.

Now if you will excuse me I have to log off to go do my 40 minute Yoga routine and do at least 20 minutes on my stationary bike. And if I have time I will have to spend at least 10 to 30 minutes on my forms.... that is what us unfit guys do.

that will work if you have to make a quick getaway jump on your stationary bike, no wait, you could bore them to death by doing forms and yoga incantations

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What if this bogey man can also run fast.. he may be faster and fitter and you have already assessed that you cannot fight your opponent which is why you opted have ran away.. what next?

You just tell the other guy, "If you dare to touch me, I'll sue you."

 

[Xue Sheng]

that will work if you have to make a quick getaway jump on your stationary bike, no wait, you could bore them to death by doing forms and yoga incantations

Again intersting, you are looking to start trouble.. that my friend is a troll..... now I am going to log off... I wish you all the best, but I doubt you will be around here long

 

[jobo]

Again intersting, you are looking to start trouble.. that my friend is a troll..... now I am going to log off... I wish you all the best, but I doubt you will be around here long

I was only joking, I'm sure your forms are intresting

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Interesting, for me I see everything as part of my martial training, including the running and weight lifting. Why do you consider them separate?

If I train 30 MA combo drills and repeat each drills 20 times, I'll work on my drill 600 times. That will take a certain amount of time. I like to keep it separate away from my running, stretching (I usually do my stretching after running), and weight (include heavy bag training)

 

[JowGaWolf]

It works for me. I have running in my training but it's not the running that you guys do. I run less than 400 yards as my training. I run forward, backwards, and side ways, and karaokes

If a person can't run then they need to get their cardio in another way, and then make sure their self-defense plan takes into consideration that they won't be running away.

 

[kuniggety]

Slightly biased because I prefer Cardio over Weights haha, plus since I focus mostly on weight loss, Cardio is generally accepted as being better than weights training for that, assuming you do the correct intensity.

It depends if your goal is really weight loss or it's actually fat loss. Once upon a time I was putting 30+ miles a week on the pavement and was 35 lbs lighter than I am now. Was my body fat really that much lower than it is now? Not really. But now I can do things such as pick up weights much heavier than my body. A balance between the two is best but put an Olympic lifter next to a marathoner and tell me who looks healthier to you. You burn massive amounts of calories when you lift heavy and when your body is repairing your muscles. In any case, diet is key.

 

[Buka]

yes bit you've set a minimum standard, then revise it downwards if they cant meet it. And set a new minimum standard then can reach. It makes the whole thing pointless, you may just as well ask them what them what they can do and give them the grade. The fact that its for self defence makes it more imperative that they get a frank assessment of their abilities

I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Perhaps you could punctuate? (I'm just trying to follow along)

 

[Headhunter]

No...simply because some people either don't want to do running or simply can't because of injuries. Those guys can train martial arts but if running was so important then they wouldn't be able to do it which is unfair. If you want to add it into your own training then fine but it shouldn't be something you're made to do. There should be some fitness elements in class but it shouldn't be the focus. You're there to learn your skills so that should be the priority. Fitness can be easily done in your own time

 

[jobo]

No...simply because some people either don't want to do running or simply can't because of injuries. Those guys can train martial arts but if running was so important then they wouldn't be able to do it which is unfair. If you want to add it into your own training then fine but it shouldn't be something you're made to do. There should be some fitness elements in class but it shouldn't be the focus. You're there to learn your skills so that should be the priority. Fitness can be easily done in your own time

don't think the question is about own time/ lesson time, so much as it its a requirement of a good marshal artist. I think its a very good skill to have, but more important is having the cardio potential that running gives,. So if you can get it another way that's fine. Bur that level of cardio is hard to reproduce with out a machine, bike rowing etc. So running is the cheapest way and it takes up less room

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well they do sort of, if they cant do a skill, you remove the skill of the test, how is that not revising downwards?

Because that one skill isn't the point of the test, as I said rather clearly earlier. I'm helping people build a broad skillset for a specific purpose (defense). If they are physically incapable of a technique, I have to build that broad skillset without it. They'll be more narrow in their options, but if they can perform at the same level, they have met the actual conceptual criteria. The testing criteria are just a means to get at that conceptual criteria. I have no actual concern over whether someone can do a specific technique, except where it is useful in that overall goal.

If they are to become an instructor of my curriculum, I have to know they can teach the technique, but that doesn't necessarily require they be able to do the technique (though it would certainly help). If they can bring me students they've prepared properly (which is the actual testing for instructor), then I know they can do that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It works for me. I have running in my training but it's not the running that you guys do. I run less than 400 yards as my training. I run forward, backwards, and side ways, and karaokes

If a person can't run then they need to get their cardio in another way, and then make sure their self-defense plan takes into consideration that they won't be running away.

When did those become karaokes instead of grapevines?

 

[jobo]

It works for me. I have running in my training but it's not the running that you guys do. I run less than 400 yards as my training. I run forward, backwards, and side ways, and karaokes

If a person can't run then they need to get their cardio in another way, and then make sure their self-defense plan takes into consideration that they won't be running away.

that looks pretty intense, might give that a go, I'm currently chasing a mile and a half in ten mins, which is the British arm test standard

 

[jobo]

I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Perhaps you could punctuate? (I'm just trying to follow along)

The general gist is, that if you keep dropping the test standard to accommodate the weakness of your candidate, then your tests levels become a nice to have and not a level of achievement relative to the grade in question. I suppose its a commercial reality if you want them to keep attending.

 

[jobo]

Because that one skill isn't the point of the test, as I said rather clearly earlier. I'm helping people build a broad skillset for a specific purpose (defense). If they are physically incapable of a technique, I have to build that broad skillset without it. They'll be more narrow in their options, but if they can perform at the same level, they have met the actual conceptual criteria. The testing criteria are just a means to get at that conceptual criteria. I have no actual concern over whether someone can do a specific technique, except where it is useful in that overall goal.

If they are to become an instructor of my curriculum, I have to know they can teach the technique, but that doesn't necessarily require they be able to do the technique (though it would certainly help). If they can bring me students they've prepared properly (which is the actual testing for instructor), then I know they can do that.

err ,you don't think instructors who can correctly demonstrate a technique is a requirement of being an instructor?

to be honest it sounds like a waffly way of justifying passing people who have dropped short of the standards that you set

out of interest what % actually fail?