Shinobi Fighting Techniques

Discussion in 'American Ninjutsu' started by sojobow, Aug 31, 2004.

  1. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    You are a blackbelt in Ninjitsu. The driver of the black car also is a Blackbelt in Ninjitsu but you didn't know this at the time. An unarmed "fight" starts. What would indicate to you that the driver of the black car holds a high rank in Ninjitsu versus some other system of martial arts?

    As an intro, let us say that you are inside an automobile sitting at an intersection awaiting the light to change (you're in the front passenger seat). There is a Black car setting next to you (your right) with the windows down. Driver just listening to his radio when, for some strange reason, just before the light turns green for you, another car (blue) rear-ends the black car next to you. The driver of the blue car gets out at the same time as the driver of the black car. The blue car driver walks hastely up to the black car driver (car is black), screamming that the black car driver has to fix his blankittyblank blue car. Then, for some strange reason, the blue (car is blue)car driver takes a swing at the black car driver.

    What is unique about the unarmed combat methods of a Shinobi?

    On what basis in Ninjitsu would you testify to your observation of the event in a court of law?
     
  2. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i guess because he is driving a "black car" that would indicate a "black art". :rolleyes:
    or maybe if he pulled out some shuriken. or had his hood on.

    i think this question should be in general, if not in the comedy section. i'm confused with all the colors.:idunno:
     
  3. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    It almost sounds like from the descriptions with the colors that this might have been something that was witnessed?

    I think in a fight people are going to recogonize "techniques" from their style no matter what the person actually studies, because you would view the fight through the lens of your own training and try to make sense of it from within that framework.

    For example, a straight right or a reverse punch would be about the same thing in terms of the action of the arm but depending on your framework it would depend on how you would define it.

    Long story short, I don't think you could identify "specific" techniques to know what the person studied for sure.
     
  4. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    What's unique about Shinobi fighting? Um..since iv'e only been doing it 3 months can't honestly say.

    However, about what to say in court, i believe honesty is always the best policy. :)
     
  5. Genin Andrew

    Genin Andrew Guest

    Maybe the spontaneous methods, "no messing around straight to the point" style of attack, no "washing machine" blocks (for those that have studied karate) just getting to the point,a guy throws a punch at you,your not gonna be nice about it your gonna put the guy down.

    The lethality or level of damage of the attacks performed by a ninjutsu practitioner could arguably set it apart from other styles. For example in this situation i would block the incoming punch with my left arm, strike him in the face with a nice straight right arm punch (breaking the nose) while dragging his blocked arm foward and applying a lock to his elbow. This way he is immobolised and i wont get into to much trouble (minimum damage). Or more realistically i would just smash him in the groin with a thrust kick and as he keels over drive my knee up into his face. Jump in my "black car" and catchya later.

    Its hard to know how you would perform in "real" situation. Obviously if the defender dissapeared in a cloud of smoke before the punch connected well then no doubt the guys a ninja:rolleyes: . Or if he rolled to one side grabbing a stick (bo) as he rolled, got up and smashed the guy across the head:whip: , this could be seen as a specific "knowledge" of ninjutsu ie. even knowing how to adapt to the situation or even just thinking of grabbing the stick. Or the attacker is on the floor unconscious before he even throws the punch,because the ninja knew it was coming, "no such thing as a surprise for a ninja"...but the list goes on.

    and yes...all those colours did muddle up the story and make it a little confusing : /

    much respect
    -andrew
     
  6. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    I would have to agree with Genin as in the stright to the point thing, i have been taught that if the fight is the type where you are worryed about your life and the fight is "Dragging on" then something is generaly wrong as in im fighting a guy at equal skill as me or i just suck

    All the tech i know in American Ninjutsu is that there all maybe 3 parts long and there down before they know what hit them, They punch, you deflect and have them down on the ground yelling from pain from a lock or a finnisher(i.e. broke there arm)

    That and also we have no problem using anything we can fight to increase are chances of winning :p "We fight to win" as my teacher says it, he says something before that but i forget, and so no one in my class has any problem going for the cheap blows, though if they where fighting a fellow MA or just to show off and know there not in a live or death situation chances are they woudl drag it and have fun with um :p
     
  7. BoneBreaker

    BoneBreaker Guest

    Because he driver a black car?? hmm, not likely. In Manilla the local Gangstas Drive White nissan Sentra's. It would pertinent to know if this would be taking place in the U.S?

    I would consider something that worked to be sufficient. It completely depends on the style of your opponent vs what "style" or technique you use to defeat him. Bruce said "No way as way", The observation in a court of law would be unnecssary as his training methods would be investigated by the authorities and thusly known through discovery by both sides.

    fighting is like the game of "rock, paper, scissors" and no one style is for all instances-not even Dux Ryu Ninjitsu or possibly a Shinobi per say. Sugar Ray Leonard said "You don't beat the man, you beat his style." In other words, you beat him where he has a way. Thus, we seek to specialize in generalizing; the goal being that no matter the situation, we have an Goal instead of a way. your skill draws upon all those with whom you have fought, and those with whom you have trained. And you would call it your "system". A "True" Shinobi Ninja guy would probably kill the attacker quite swiftly. but the method or identifying method would be a direct result of the attacker and open to interpetation. I also doubt you would ever see him in court to be quite honest.

    As always I am interested in your answer to your own question Sojobow. Please share it.
     
  8. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    I'd hope you or someone else hadn't noticed that I didn't share an opinion. I'm trying to learn something from these guys. Make em share their secrets. But, you caught me. Go Away. (smile face here):)

    AnimEdge and Genin Andrew's post were pretty good (IMO). Hope others share their ideas here. I really appreciate AaronLucia's honesty. But I was trying to get around answering my own question. People here don't like my answers. Enson even thought this thread on Shinobi fighting should be in the "General" section or the "comedy" section." I think its personal.

    I've seen fights in which I had no doubt that both fighters were Kung Fu students. They exhibited their signs throughtout. Cranes, Snake and Dragon signs were flying. I've seen Karate exhibited on the streets. Easy to tell what system, but hard to tell any particular school. But it was a hard style and absolutely no circling during the fight. Plenty of American Boxing. No secret techniques there. Saw a Hapkido grab a Karate bully and teach him a lesson. Saw a TKD student flow with a sequence of 4 kicks (3 kicks to the face). So, basically, if we've been paying attention to what other martial arts systems are doing, we (in Ninjitsu) can tell with a high degree of confidence, what style we see. We know that if the guy has a broken collar bone, a couple of broken fingers, an arm disjointed or broken and a massive head injury from being slammed to the pavement - the guy unfortunately ran into a Jujitsu student and lost. Even an Aikido throw is quite clear and easily recognized when observed.

    But, what would a Shinobi attack look like? I was thinking maybe a couple of these high-ranking members would help us out with a few secrets. Would we see an exhibition depicting disappearing, 5 Rings "do nothing of no use," efficiency in that he actually chose the correct points to strike and delivered, movements where the shinobi actually moved to the correct position that would take advantage of his own previous strike? I do think a high-ranking (rank is used as a proxy for experience here) shinobi would be able to easily tell or identify another shinobi in action. IMO - The attacker (blue car) would have been blinded, would have been struck in the most efficient vital point(s), would have been very close to death do to a probable broken kneck - all delivered and finished in Seconds while smiling. Since this is a Ninjitsu Sub-Section, at least we can say that we won. Or did we?

    I used a person in the DAN catagory because I find that students in the color belt catagory, usually regress backward and lose their martial arts forms when confronted with a real life-threatening or high anxiety situation. We're use to tapping out when it gets too rough. So, I'd like to know what the big boys do from the big boys.

    I'd like someone to add what portion of Shinobi philosophy would apply.

    Regarding Court Testimony, wouldn't a shinobi refuse to testify? By the time Five-O arrived, we would have been long gone - disappeared.

    Got my popcorn. Disgourge those secrets blackbelts!!!!!!!!
     
  9. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    Well..for the court thing, as much as we like to think Ninja could always disappear..they couldn't, sometimes they were caught.

    If you beat the crap out of the guy, and there were witnesses..even just one who remembered your license plate number, you could get into some trouble. :p
     
  10. BoneBreaker

    BoneBreaker Guest

    Technology changes things Quite a bit does it not AaronLucia. A "modern" Shinobi would have his wits about him enough not to kill someone over such a trivial thing. In public He would evade the attacker without showing off and wait for the police to arrive, possibly manhandling him a bit to keep him there until they arrive but nothing more or technical looking, as he would then call 911 on his cell. He would not have to go to court necessarily but would be well within his rights.
     
  11. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    If they start doing "Finger twisties" like that RTWS guy talked abour or whatever there truly called then we could know its a ninja :p
     
  12. heretic888

    heretic888 Senior Master

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    Well.... considering the rather loose criteria you guys have for a "ninjutsu" style, I don't think you'd notice anything setting it apart from your run-of-the-mill American hybrid style.
     
  13. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    so i guess we blend in?! nice! isn't that what ninjutsu is all about? blending in? traditional go on and on about how the ninja had do blend in and not be noticed... and now its a bad thing? miscommunication? ;)
    i think maybe it would depend on the time of day, weapons available, etc. maybe if he took a low fighting stance or he didn't try to go strike for strike with the guy. or maybe if his blows were directed to vital body parts.
    i don't know.
    peace
     
  14. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    First thing I noticed watching sparring in Ninjitsu was that the newer students (like myself) quickly reverted back to their previous fighting styles. Boxer's boxed, TKD's kicked, Jujitsu stood grappling (like me), BJJ charged the legs. But the older students fought quite differently. Extremely fast and to the point. Sensei just watched in pain and agony. It takes at least 2 years of training just to learn to spar as a Ninjitsuist. Altogether different body mechanix, attitude, viciousness. I kept hearing someone scream: Stop using Jujitsu and use what we taught you (even when I was winning). Won't even let us spar against blackbelts. It's like they hold back the Pitt Bulls from killing us fresh meat. Actually, its a waste of their time.

    I have never, in over 30 years in and out of martial arts, saw anything closely resembling the fighting styles of the Ninjitsu/Ninjutsu student let alone the fighting style of the Ninja. If the fight lasts past 10 seconds, you must be seeing two Ninja fighting each other. But, it takes years of training to even get close. 7 days a week, twice a day, full time and you MIGHT make it in 3 1/2 years. Part time training - 10 years. Never seen a martial art where a new student throws up just watching. And yes, they do disappear.
     
  15. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i have to admit sojobow... i'm always a little confused after i read your post. maybe it just shows my intelligence.

    i have never studied any other style besides rtms. don't ever want to. i love to watch all styles, but don't want to be a practicioner. i want to stay as pure as possible. i might pick up a few techniques here and there but never want to be associated with any other style beyond friendship. so back to what you were saying... it probably would make a difference in the 2 styles of ninjutsu. because even the xkans have their differences.
    peace
     
  16. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    Enson:

    What is confusing. I don't understand your point. Rewind
     
  17. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    no point just making a statement. ;)
    i always have to ready your post twice for some reason. its like after the first time i read it i think, "huh?".
    read that again.
     
  18. heretic888

    heretic888 Senior Master

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    Yup, miscommunication.

    The point I was trying to make is that there is no real criteria here for what is or is not "shinobi fighting methods". Or "ninjutsu", even. The only criteria here I can see is that you just call your art a "ninjutsu" art. As such, a whole lot of different styles (many of which may have no similarities to one another at all) would fall under this category.

    And, no, contrary to what someone said to me in the comments function, I am not the one that decides this criteria. My point is there is no criteria in the first place.

    Have a good one. Laterz.
     
  19. Jay Bell

    Jay Bell Master Black Belt

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    Uhh...no. They'd be the ones who phoned the Five-O to begin with.
     
  20. heretic888

    heretic888 Senior Master

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    Well said, Jay. :asian:
     

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