Sharing my training - Conditioning

[jobo]

Interesting how we recall and perceive things...

There are lots of different ways to develop certain skills, attributes and conditioning. Doesn't have to just be one. This way may be more specific to his art. The one you suggested was done for cage fighters. Of course that could helpful to him. Could be to anyone in some way.

the problem is there isnt another way of doing it, it a fight takes 5 mins of high intensity effort the only was of building that is to do 10 mins of high intensity exercise, doing other variations be that 1 min of supper high intensity ( ie power lifting )or in his case two hours of extremely low intensity is leaving a big advantage on the table or even worse sees you beaten up by someone who can manage that level of exertion.

its an argument ive had with BD several times, there is nothing at all wrong with TMA for fighting, the issue is how people train and that it has become detached from fighting and not a few on here seem to be anti fitness, believing that low intensity techniques will be effective, they can only have come to this conclusion in the absence of actually engaging in fighting with a very fit ( and skilled)opponent

in my class, i keep wrecking higher belts, by just being considerably fitter than they are, everything works, every time, they go away and practise their techniques in the same way to improve them, then i wreck them again. they dont seem capable of realising that they need to improve their fitness times 10 to stand an earthly chance of not being dumped on the floor

a fitness program designed for fighting ie MMA has to be worthy of consideration

 

[_Simon_]

the problem is there isnt another way of doing it, it a fight takes 5 mins of high intensity effort the only was of building that is to do 10 mins of high intensity exercise, doing other variations be that 1 min of supper high intensity ( ie power lifting )or in his case two hours of extremely low intensity is leaving a big advantage on the table or even worse sees you beaten up by someone who can manage that level of exertion.

its an argument ive had with BD several times, there is nothing at all wrong with TMA for fighting, the issue is how people train and that it has become detached from fighting and not a few on here seem to be anti fitness, believing that low intensity techniques will be effective, they can only have come to this conclusion in the absence of actually engaging in fighting with a very fit opponent

in my class, i keep wrecking higher belts, by just being considerably fitter than they are, everything works, every time, they go away and practise their techniques in the same way to improve them, then i wreck them again. they dont seem capable of realising that they need to improve their fitness times 10 to stand an earthly chance of not being dumped on the floor

But yeah the argument that there's a "better way" of doing things... where does that end? Just feels like another way of you yet again saying "well no do this instead". There's no end to what's "better", why not go train in the harsh winter snow for 7 weeks with Russian military? Why not go to the most dangerous suburb and insult someone and fight? Why not do the Tour de France?

Again, we've gone through this before, different ways to train things. It depends on goals/purpose, does it not?

He may not be training for a 5 minute fight. You don't even know his goals in the slightest, and WHAT he is working to improve upon.

I spent time doing strengthening/stability stuff for my ankle today. I didn't do that for my neck strength.

 

[jobo]

But yeah the argument that there's a "better way" of doing things... where does that end? Just feels like another way of you yet again saying "well no do this instead". There's no end to what's "better", why not go train in the harsh winter snow for 7 weeks with Russian military? Why not go to the most dangerous suburb and insult someone and fight? Why not do the Tour de France?

Again, we've gone through this before, different ways to train things. It depends on goals/purpose, does it not?

He may not be training for a 5 minute fight. You don't even know his goals in the slightest, and WHAT he is working to improve upon.

I spent time doing strengthening/stability stuff for my ankle today. I didn't do that for my neck strength.

thats just a silly argument, doing 10 mins of high intensity training is freely available in your own living room, no need to join the KGB or cycle up the Pyrenees

life generally is the art of the possible, and that very possible

if your training to fight, then theres a very strong possibility that the fight will take a few mins of concerted effort, that just how fights are, its less likely that they will last two hours and involve slow motion stepping, its really a case therefore of prioritisation of your training to the most likely scenario

 

[_Simon_]

thats just a silly argument, doing 10 mins of high intensity training is freely available in your own living room, no need to join the KGB or cycle up the Pyrenees

life generally is the art of the possible, and that very possible

if your training to fight, then theres a very strong possibility that the fight will take a few mins of concerted effort, that just how fights are, its less likely that they will last two hours and involve slow motion stepping, its really a case therefore of prioritisation of your training to the most likely scenario

........

So cardio fitness is literally the only thing you need to train in MA?

That's what you're saying?

The ONLY thing?

 

[jobo]

........

So cardio fitness is literally the only thing you need to train in MA?

That's what you're saying?

The ONLY thing?

i didnt mention cardio at all, or suggest that it was the only thing. you dont actually need any fitness above base line to train ma, as is clear from the number of people who train it at little above base line

my point was more that you need a fairly high level of fitness in order to fight someone with a good level of fitness, ONE very important component of that fitness is high intensity over a few minutes, how many mins ? , dont know 2,3,4,5 , ? best to train at the top side, if its only an investment of 10 mins of your time, two or three times a week

im really struggling to understand, the level of your objection to this, it seems a fairly obvious conclusion to reach, it does seem to go against the ethos of some ma, that a high degree of physical condition isnt necessary or even desirable,


it wasnt always such, it seems to have crept in in the last 25 years or so, in the 70s and 80s ma would absolutely hammer you with physical conditioning,, way back then that vid has nothing on the work out my kung fu training demanded..the only thing that seems to have changed is the demographic they tend to attract ?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Awesome, love it man. Gives me some cool ideas for myself too. They do not look easy!

If you do them towards the end or at the end of your training, they are really challenging in a good way. You probably won't get as good of a workout if you are too fresh. I hit empty really quick without warning. I felt like I was doing well and then suddenly there was nothing.

Additional information below. Just throwing it out there for anyone:
To add more difficulty to the staff lower the stance to engage the legs more. To weight the staff, simply put on wrist weights Just don't go crazy with the weight. Use the speed of the staff to measure how much your waist muscle is engaged The more waist the faster the staff will turn. Push off the leg to help jump start the turn then use the waist to speed things up. The staff or bar that you use probably needs to be a little longer than your arm span. It doesn't need to be staff. A broom stick would work just as well. I'm not sure how well the light weight staffs that look like this will work. I guess it just depends on how durable they are. I've never owned or held one. You just don't want to use anything that will snap or bend.

The 20 lbs (9 kg) are always difficult. When picking a weight you want to pick something that you can hold with a chambered fist for a limited time. You don't want anything that you can easily hold for 3 minutes. You want those biceps to be working while the legs are working. When I first started, I could only hold the weight for about 40 seconds before my arms or fingers got tired. Grapplers will have better gripping endurance. The weight not only allows you to work the waste a little more but they weigh you down so your legs have to work a little more. I'll post a non-kung fu version sometimes (meaning I'm not doing the footwork found in my form). It's the same concept as a Farmer's Walk (walking with weights) when it comes to the legs with the only difference being that the weight is much lighter and you are using it in the context of what you do. Whatever you use make sure the weight is something that you can get close to the center of your body. This will help ensure that the weight moves with you and not keep going after you stop. Your engaged biceps will help to keep that weight locked down.

 

[JowGaWolf]

im finding it hard to understand what doing super low intensity turns with a sweeping brush behind your back is going to achieve, in fitness to fight terms?

First don't call my staff "sweeping broom". It's name is Tree lol. Punching power can be multiplied by engaging the waist. The more powerful the core the more powerful the punch. This core development is not the same as doing sit ups. This core development is specific to the actions of punching with the whole body, by forcing a person to only use their legs and waist to generate the power that will go into a punch. It's similar to this and other medicine ball exercises

Using the staff prevents the arms from helping you generate rotational power for a punch. The only thing I have left to use are the legs and the waist. What you are seeing isn't low intensity, what you are seeing is the reality is the hard reality that my waist power isn't as powerful as it feels when I throw a punch. If my waist was truly powerful then then the speed of the staff would move faster. It would have more of a whipping speed. But since the movement of the staff isn't quick, it means I still have some improvement to do. The more I do this exercise the stronger my core will get and the faster and more powerful my punches will be.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hang on, they do 30lbs weights? Translating that into metric i have never seen the mtric weight for it done, that or its very rare. Its usually 12kg then 15/14/16.

Same with 20lbs for that matter, that in metric is just a odd weight to find.

I used to be able to lift 8kg in kettlebell form but that day is long gone for now. Kind of annoys me how people used to mock my old routine yet it actually worked a decent bit.

ha ha ha. well you know Americans, We do things our own way and won't get with the rest of the world until we learn the hard way.

 

[jobo]

First don't call my staff "sweeping broom". It's name is Tree lol. Punching power can be multiplied by engaging the waist. The more powerful the core the more powerful the punch. This core development is not the same as doing sit ups. This core development is specific to the actions of punching with the whole body, by forcing a person to only use their legs and waist to generate the power that will go into a punch. It's similar to this and other medicine ball exercises

Using the staff prevents the arms from helping you generate rotational power for a punch. The only thing I have left to use are the legs and the waist. What you are seeing isn't low intensity, what you are seeing is the reality is the hard reality that my waist power isn't as powerful as it feels when I throw a punch. If my waist was truly powerful then then the speed of the staff would move faster. It would have more of a whipping speed. But since the movement of the staff isn't quick, it means I still have some improvement to do. The more I do this exercise the stronger my core will get and the faster and more powerful my punches will be.

no punching power cant be multiplied by working the core, if by multiplied you mean times 2. you can multiply it times one obviously
if you want to work your abs, which presumably is what you mean, then turn the intensity on on the little blighters

hers an abs ( and a good few other muscles) work out, in facts its my abs ( and a good few other muscle i do it more for the other muscles than the abs)work out, if you find this more difficult, ( it is called sore in 6 mins) then its doing you more good than what ever your doing with that broom, sorry staff, when you have developed them, then go back to waving your stick about, its a far more efficient way of doing it

 

[JowGaWolf]

the problem is there isnt another way of doing it, it a fight takes 5 mins of high intensity effort the only was of building that is to do 10 mins of high intensity exercise, doing other variations be that 1 min of supper high intensity ( ie power lifting )or in his case two hours of extremely low intensity is leaving a big advantage on the table or even worse sees you beaten up by someone who can manage that level of exertion.

its an argument ive had with BD several times, there is nothing at all wrong with TMA for fighting, the issue is how people train and that it has become detached from fighting and not a few on here seem to be anti fitness, believing that low intensity techniques will be effective, they can only have come to this conclusion in the absence of actually engaging in fighting with a very fit ( and skilled)opponent

in my class, i keep wrecking higher belts, by just being considerably fitter than they are, everything works, every time, they go away and practise their techniques in the same way to improve them, then i wreck them again. they dont seem capable of realising that they need to improve their fitness times 10 to stand an earthly chance of not being dumped on the floor

a fitness program designed for fighting ie MMA has to be worthy of consideration

You have to keep in mind that everything isn't about high intensity. There's strength building, muscle building, endurance building, technique building. What high intensity looks like varies depending on the exercise you are doing. If I had the ability to move faster with the staff then I would have. What you see in the video is me trying to move fast as fast as I can. What I can do is show the result of my training. I can take a before video of me working speed and power punches and then a few months later I can do a follow up video. If there is a significant then at lease you can see that the training works even if you may not like this type of training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

no punching power cant be multiplied by working the core, if by multiplied you mean times 2. you can multiply it times one obviously

No there's a significant increase of power. This hold true for a lot of things and not just fighting. If the multiplying factor was only 1, then people would only punch just using their arms and not their waist for hip.

Punch and pivot the foot without using the waist. = small punching power
Punch and only use the arms = small punching power.

The one thing you hear from all fighters and martial artist, only punching with the arms is a weak punch and that a punch's speed and power can greatly increase by twisting the waist or the hips. If you don't believe this then punch without using your waist or using your hips.

The use of the waist is vital for use in long fist martial arts fighting systems.
As you can see in this video there is a lot of twisting of the waist and the hip twist that most people do with linear punches isn't going to work with the circular punches.

 

[jobo]

No there's a significant increase of power. This hold true for a lot of things and not just fighting. If the multiplying factor was only 1, then people would only punch just using their arms and not their waist for hip.

Punch and pivot the foot without using the waist. = small punching power
Punch and only use the arms = small punching power.

The one thing you hear from all fighters and martial artist, only punching with the arms is a weak punch and that a punch's speed and power can greatly increase by twisting the waist or the hips. If you don't believe this then punch without using your waist or using your hips.

The use of the waist is vital for use in long fist martial arts fighting systems.
As you can see in this video there is a lot of twisting of the waist and the hip twist that most people do with linear punches isn't going to work with the circular punches.

i punch really hard just using my arms, but then ive put a lot of work in to both arm strength and generating acceleration, i can general knock people over like that,

its better again if i move forward getting most of my body weight in to the punch, the least part of that is hip movement, im not saying it doesnt help, it does just not as much as you think and

if you think your lacking punching power?/speed then there other area to improve not just hips, it wont really turn your punch from being slapped with pillow to them lying on the floor all on its own and then why issolated it, the whole point is the inter muscle co ordination that is what ever muscles your using pass the baton and give you considerable hand speed, taking arm movement out of it seem pointless, in the end it doesnt matter if the rotation is being driven by your arms or your abs, as long as its happening and your opponent falls over, it cant actually be better than that

 

[JowGaWolf]

no punching power cant be multiplied by working the core, if by multiplied you mean times 2. you can multiply it times one obviously
if you want to work your abs, which presumably is what you mean, then turn the intensity on on the little blighters

hers an abs ( and a good few other muscles) work out, in facts its my abs ( and a good few other muscle i do it more for the other muscles than the abs)work out, if you find this more difficult, ( it is called sore in 6 mins) then its doing you more good than what ever your doing with that broom, sorry staff, when you have developed them, then go back to waving your stick about, its a far more efficient way of doing it

None of those videos train the functionality and mechanics of the footwork or the punch. You can do those all day long and still have a weak and slow punch. There's no coordination or tying in punching movement, There's no fighting mobility that works out the footwork for pushing, throwing , or take down. The footwork in the video is the same footwork that can be seen in my sparring videos.

Does the video that you show build abs and core. Yes. Does it build functional core muscles for the system that I train? No.

 

[jobo]

None of those videos train the functionality and mechanics of the footwork or the punch. You can do those all day long and still have a weak and slow punch. There's no coordination or tying in punching movement, There's no fighting mobility that works out the footwork for pushing, throwing , or take down. The footwork in the video is the same footwork that can be seen in my sparring videos.

Does the video that you show build abs and core. Yes. Does it build functional core muscles for the system that I train? No.

i hate to state the obvious but waving that stick around is doing next to nothing to develop your abs or any notation of functional abs strength, i mean really how are you verify your improvements, i mean fine its exercise, it must be doing something, but wheres the progressive over load

develop them first then tie that into inter muscle co ordination youl spend an awful long time like that before you see any tangible improvements, you do better if you jammed it against a wall, and had something to p[ush against

i bet those guys you showed in the vid on the other thread arnt wasting their time like that

 

[JowGaWolf]

i hate to state the obvious but waving that stick around is doing next to nothing to develop your abs or any notation of functional abs strength, i mean really how are you verify your improvements,

You watch the speed of the staff. The faster it moves the more powerful the waist turn is. Not complicated at all.

 

[JowGaWolf]

i bet those guys you showed in the vid on the other thread arnt wasting their time like that

If you or anyone else thinks that my videos are a waste of time, then all I can recommend is don't watch them. If my videos help even to just trigger some custom training ideas of their own, then watch them. My only point for showing the videos is to share the type of training I do and to give some insight on why I train the way that I do.

 

[jobo]

You watch the speed of the staff. The faster it moves the more powerful the waist turn is. Not complicated at all.

its not more power full as its not pushing against anything but air, i can move my arm very quickly, there no power in it, if you've had improvement those will slow down and stop as there is no progressive overload to continue to develop the muscle

 

[JowGaWolf]

i bet those guys you showed in the vid on the other thread arnt wasting their time like that

I bet none of the guys you showed in your videos actually fight using long fist techniques.

 

[jobo]

I bet none of the guys you showed in your videos actually fight using long fist techniques.

there may be a reason for that ? i did Jow Ga for three to 4 years and at no point did anyone do that or anything like it, yet no one was short of punching power, i know coz they hit me quite often

 

[JowGaWolf]

its not more power full as its not pushing against anything but air, i can move my arm very quickly, there no power in it, if you've had improvement those will slow down and stop as there is no progressive overload to continue to develop the muscle

You don't know because you don't do the exercise. The comments I make come from the experience of doing these exercises for about a month. If it was something that wasn't effective then I wouldn't be continuing the exercises. Things that have happen since I've started using the staff and weights.

1. Improvement on leg strength
2. Improvement on footwork transition. I feel a lot more solid with my footwork and moving in between stance. My body is working harder to balance as I move from one stance to the other, my stabilizing muscles that help with balancing feel stronger.
3. Leg, grip, and bicep muscle endurance have also improve. It takes longer for me to gas out now, and I'm able to hold the weights up longer.
4. My waist engagement is better now.
5. My posture has actually improved which is something that I wasn't expecting.
6. My staff strikes are getting faster.
7. My love handles are getting smaller.
8. My cardio is improving.
9. My lower back is getting stronger
10. MY KUNG FU IS GETTING BETTER.