Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts - General' started by mantis, Aug 17, 2006.
Published in the October 2004 release of Inside Kung Fu Magazine
the 12 keywords passed down from the creator of the system (wang lang)
the 4 principles of movement...
the 8 hard principles
the 12 soft principles
the Inner/Outer gate theory
Finally the seven star stance
Curious where you are getting your information from? For example, the 12 keywords and explinations?
Oops, i thought i forgot to state where i got my quotes from. they are from Sifu Albright's website that you gave me the other day. Some of the material is different from what i read from other 7 star PM from other lineages (still under lo kwan yu) but it's similar enough.
I just wanted to paste all material in one thread for our future reference, especially that im always looking for those principles online. i think he did a great job compiling this information. besides people who ask about mantis can see this now
my reference is: http://www.lawclansman.com/theory.html
"Chao Chi Man disseminated the seven star system to his nephew, Chiu Leun, who already had a background in mantis style through his apprenticeship at a temple with the "Big Monk" and the "Little Monk." Chiu Leun spread the art to America when he relocated to New York's Chinatown. "
As an 8th Generation Closed-Door Disciple of Grandmaster Lee Kam Wing I have to make a comment on the quote above and make the record straight. The late Grandmaster Chiu Leun my sibok, was not a nephew of Great Grandmaster Chiu Chi Man they just had the same last name, very common in China and for that matter the world.
My Sifu had asked Great Grandmaster Chiu Chi Man if Chiu Leun was his nephew and he said clearly "NO" just same name. Also Chiu Leun was born in New York he went back and forth to Hong Kong to train with Chui Chi Man. Why is it that the Chiu Leun clan keeps saying that he was his nephew I have no idea but it's not true.
Never the less we are not talking about his skills they speak for themselves (the man was a bad asss!) and I do respect that and honor that. But I will not honor a lie that is being perpertrated by his clan. Now that Chiu Leun is dead his people could do what ever they want with their decendants and make up stories if they want, but just remember that Chi Chi Man had several closed-door disciples and the one's that are still alive agree with my statement I have met several of them and I have confirmed this with them.
The reason I mention this is because I know I'm going to get attacked on this subject and they're all going to say that this isn't true, so I ask you all are my Sibok's telling a lie? or just the simple truth? I have nothing else to say on the article it is very well written an accurate, with just that little fabble.
Good posts, thanks for the information.
Hello everyone, it's good to see that the Jiu Ji Man sect has opened with a dialogue. This reply is for Mantis Master. I am from the Jiu Leun sect also and my Sifu is one of the late Jiu Leun's senior disciples, Jeung Wah. What he told me was exactly what your Sifu has told you, the late Jiu Leun was not Jiu Ji Man's nephew. However, legends, myths and folklore are not absent in traditional Chinese martial arts. This sort of thing happens whenever there is a passing of a great martial arts master or a telling about origins of various styles. I wouldn't take it so personal. Not everyone in the Jiu Leun sect or for that matter, not everyone the entire Mantis style agrees with various legends told about masters or origins of techniques. "For a believer no proof is necessary, but for a sceptic no proof is enough". That sums up my statement. Thank you.
kau is not unique to mantis
It exists in Baji as well
Thank you for this thread. Though I am not a mantis practitioner (Ying Jow Pai, Wudan Nine Birds, Southern White Crane, Yang Tai chi) I have know Raymond Fogg for a long time and his seniors John Cheng and Jeff Hughes. All are very good and very reputable practitioners of Tong Long and Seven Star. My Shaolin master is also Tong Long. In any event, what has been beneficial for me, from the chin na and locking comments, is the extensive similarities between the mantis bridging and locking techniques and those employed in traditional Ying Jow (Leung Shum and Ng Wei branch) and White Crane (Dr. Yang Jwing Ming and Jeff Bolt branch). The hooking, false door applications, etc. were all very fascinating and it was very gratifying to see Sifu Hughes illuminate these aspects of the mantis. The comments on chi sau and bridging were also interesting. One question for y'all though: In Seven Star as in Tong Long, is there still monkey footwork influence in moving and closing the gap? If not, what foot movement patterns are generally employed? How does the unique foot posture of Seven Star effect useful hooking and sweeping motions vs. other types of Mantis? Actually, what is the intent of that pointed-up posture in Seven Star? Sorry, after 31 years still a bit nosy and curious about other cool styles though I have been a "bird" stylist all of my life.
Thank you for your comments and allowing me to follow up with some questions. With respect and honor for a great style...Hsieh-Hsieh
I beleive you are asking about the 7-Star step (the stance w/the toe pointed up). This step/stance is not unique to Mantis alone, however its uses are many and specialized in 7-Star Praying Mantis. This step is a fast kick, throw, hook, attack, obsticle, and disruptor. Its attack include the lower leg, medial, posterior, lateral and plantorial parts of the heel, foot, and ankle. It is movements are swift and extremely inconspicuous if applied correctly towards it opponent, but very powerful and effective in combat. One should never under estimate the capabilities of the 7-Star step of 7-Star Praying Mantis kung fu or pay the painful disabilitating consequences. I hope that I have given you some clarity regarding its usage.
But a lot of great info on the Mantis system!
Here's another link that has all this in Chinese...
Addendum to above.
十二字訣- 12 Keywords 勾- Gou (Hook) 搂- Lou (Grapple) 采- Cai (Pluck) 挂- Gua (Block upward) 刁进- Diao Jin (Cunning forward) 粘- Zhan (Stick) 閉- Bi (Dodge) 黏- Nian (Cling) 拿- Na (Control) 靠- Kao (Lean) 來- Lai (Come) 腾挪- Teng Nuo (Bounce) ...贴- Tie (Tag)
十二柔- Shi Er Rou (12 Soft) 見剛而囘手- Jian Gong Er Hui Shou 入手而偷手- Ru Shou Er Tou Shou 截手而滚手- Jie Shou Er Gun Shou 棍手而漏手- Gun Shou Er Lou Shou 直统而勾手- Zhi Tong Er Gou Shou 采手而入手- Cai Shou Er Ru Shou 搂手而进手- Lou Shou Er Jin Shou 磕手而入手- Ke Shou Er Ru Shou 撲手而入手- Pu Shou Er Ru Shou 挑手而入手- Tiao Shou Er Ru Shou 开手而叠手- Kai Shou Er Die Shou 粘手而破手- Nian Shou Er Po Shou
八剛- Ba Gang (8 Hard Methods), 太山壓頂- Tai Shan Ya Ding, 迎面直統- Yin Ming Zhi Tong, 左右雙運- Zuo You Shuang Yun, 摔捋兩分- Shuai Luo Liangfen, 疊肘硬供- Die Zhou Ying Gong, 順步雙掌- Shun Bu Shuang Zhang, 硬崩伏低- Ying Beng Fu Di, 貼門靠壁- Tie Men Kao Bi
Awesome exchange! Thanks
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