Setup AR-15 for Home Defense

[Dirty Dog]

isnt that a NFA item? I havent looked into short barreled shotgun, i know sub 16inch rifle barrels make it a SBR. (to be fair, who gets a SBS?)

Someone who wants to use it in close quarters, obviously. And bullpup designs, by moving the action into the butt, result in what is effectively a SBS or SBR without running into the NFA rules.
For that matter, it's not like getting an NFA item is all that difficult. I'm pretty sure if you do a little looking, I've posted a step-by-step guide to doing so. It'll cost you $200 and some paperwork.

 

[drop bear]

Jsut seems like prefrence/avalibility. 5.56 HP's arent exactly going to be nice to be shot with and might be cheaper where you live, or you might just not have a shotgun, or vice versa, you might have a shotgun and no semi automatic rifle. Going into the micro detaila bit, a more closed property/occupied proeprty might warrant a shotgun mroe thana rifle, but a more open and sparsely populated one might warrant a rifle.

You are either bunkering witha shotgun or rifle, or protecting a larger property with secondary buildings in it pretty much.

Oh i forgot, i think AR15's are lighter than 12 gauge and maybe 20 gauge shotguns usually and are more plesant to shoot than them in terms of recoil. But thats obviously a prefrence game/which one you have used more. (a pistol is probbly better if you are clearing your house anyway as its more manoverable and does the job suffciently to begin with)

Yeah. There will be more and more layers. As you go in to the risks and rewards.

I mean you might even be some super shotgun guy. In which case just familiarity is a decider.

 

[drop bear]

i don't have time to respond now to the entire second post, but I'll answer quickly that yes, a bow and arrow is a weapon. A sword is a weapon, too. They're both somewhat archaic, but that doesn't make them a tool. A halberd is a weapon, but you just don't see many of them around any more. A gun is designed to shoot things, injure them, and ideally to kill them. It's a weapon, whether you use it as one or not. Calling it a tool is silly.

Which is of course why the terminology war.

Guns are "tools"

Gun owners are "responsible"

And what about the small delicate female who needs to defend herself from a rapist?

And it is kind of funny because you can very quickly go from responsible tool using female to its my right by throwing out a couple of simple ideas.

Suggest mandatory training, registration and research. Nothing that would stop a delicate female owning a gun to protect herself against a rapist. But it goes against the intrinsic identity of gun ownership of freedom and rights.

And back flippers will backflip

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Someone who wants to use it in close quarters, obviously. And bullpup designs, by moving the action into the butt, result in what is effectively a SBS or SBR without running into the NFA rules.
For that matter, it's not like getting an NFA item is all that difficult. I'm pretty sure if you do a little looking, I've posted a step-by-step guide to doing so. It'll cost you $200 and some paperwork.

Is the SBS barrel length the same as a rifles? Sub 16 inches is a SBS?

Getting a NFA item is more difficult than not getting one and inheretence etc. The issue for that and shotguns is you need to keep the tube behind the barrel, so shorter barrel, shorter magazine. There doesnt seem to be as many nagatives with a SBR as a SBS. that and some peoples shotgun is there general use shotgun so they need it for hunting and the like as well. a 14inch AR15 can be a decent general purpose rifle without many drawbacks, and be better for CQB.

I dont think there is much merit in a sub 14 inch barrel for a AR15. Im pretty sure the ballstics start to degrade quite a bit and im not too sure how reliable the shorter systems are. And i just remmebered there is a 5 inch AR 15 barrel you can get.


Its fundementally prefrence/micro detail for if a shotgun or rifle would be better, but a shotgun tends to be a general purpose thing for most people and not specilsied to just be for home defence. That and i dont think SBS's are nearly as popular as SBR's

 

[Oni_Kadaki]

I'd be comfortable with a 8-9 inch barrel for a .300 AAC AR-15, but not a 5.56mm.

 

[Steve]

And, honestly, it reads as gobletygook. You're trying to compare made-up weapon 1 to made-up weapon 2 saying "they both shoot about the same amount of projectiles in about the same amount of time, with similar end effects" and then extrapolate that from an AR to a "machinegun". But that is a false equivalance. An AR simply does not "shoot about the same amount of projectiles in about the same amount of time, with similar end effects" as a machine gun. Thinking or saying that it does shows a gap in your knowledge about the two.

It matters a great deal if someone is trying to justify a gun control position about one gun (an AR) by arguing as if it is a second (a "machinegun"). Because they are different. They function and behave different in a very important way.

Using the correct terminology is not jargon, particularly when one <cough> "jargon" <cough" simply does not apply to the other. It's similar to trying to apply the terminology of cars; a "manual transmission" cannot be accurately described as an "automatic" and it darn sure makes a difference to the person driving it.

This is a bow. Would you call it a weapon?

Just getting back to this. Not much here, except that you did completely miss the point. This is like seeing an accident where a vehicle plows into a group of people, and the question the bus guys are asking everyone is, "Was it an automatic or a manual transmission? Was it over 20' long? Did the guy have a commercial driver's license?"

That's the point. I made up some gobbledygook, fictional weapons because the things you think are important really are not. They're red herrings. If a person invented a way to shoot 400 to 800 arrows from a single bow in about a minute, we'd be talking about those weapons, too. Particularly if 'bow guys' started talking about them using terms like "primary offense."

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I'd be comfortable with a 8-9 inch barrel for a .300 AAC AR-15, but not a 5.56mm.

That short for a 5.56 is just, no. god no. Its detrminetal to ballstics for a 5.56 and pretty sure the gas system is unrelible if its that short and its not a lot of gripping space on the rifle.

Just looked the carbine length is for 10inches to 18inches aprox. Such a over specilised rifle, probbly no point in it. That and the fluff that comes with the NFA things. (and it would tank 55grain ammo effectivness)

 

[Blitz2.0]

Whatever you use for a home defense weapon make sure you get professional training on it! The ar 15 might be right for some houses, but in apartments,mobile homes etc I think a handgun is better. I have been trained only on pistol and shotgun so I'm definitely not using a rifle unless I get the proper training. But whatever you use please make sure you get proper training, punching holes in paper standing static at the range isn't enough. In most residences an ar15 is unrealistic, good luck moving down the hallway of a single wide trailer or an apartment with one. Weapon retention training and force on force training and for the love of all that is good learn to point shoot! It's great to use the sights but most home defense situations aren't at rifle range they are within 15 yards.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Is the SBS barrel length the same as a rifles? Sub 16 inches is a SBS?

I believe so, yes.

Getting a NFA item is more difficult than not getting one and inheretence etc. The issue for that and shotguns is you need to keep the tube behind the barrel, so shorter barrel, shorter magazine.

I'm guessing you've never seen a bullpup style shotgun.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I believe so, yes.


I'm guessing you've never seen a bullpup style shotgun.

A few exist that i think i know of, but that just seems pointless, and its hardly been adopted by anyone probbly for a good reason.

 

[CB Jones]

In most residences an ar15 is unrealistic, good luck moving down the hallway of a single wide trailer or an apartment with one.

Absolutely zero problem what so ever.

But I agree with the point point shooting. The rear sights on a handgun are useless in a self defense situation.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Whatever you use for a home defense weapon make sure you get professional training on it! The ar 15 might be right for some houses, but in apartments,mobile homes etc I think a handgun is better. I have been trained only on pistol and shotgun so I'm definitely not using a rifle unless I get the proper training. But whatever you use please make sure you get proper training, punching holes in paper standing static at the range isn't enough. In most residences an ar15 is unrealistic, good luck moving down the hallway of a single wide trailer or an apartment with one. Weapon retention training and force on force training and for the love of all that is good learn to point shoot! It's great to use the sights but most home defense situations aren't at rifle range they are within 15 yards.

Frangible ammunition exists that should break up in the walls of your home. 5.56 is pretty common for that to be cheper and more avalible than say 5.54 frangible. (not currently for obvious reasons, 5.56 is scarce)

If you get barrier blind 9mm ammuntion it can go straight through your walls , or even go straight through somone and through your wall. Just look at the Underwood pentrator rounds, they zip through quite a lot.

Plus, long guns for what i have seen are largy for bunkering down or property defence. eg, you dont clear your house with then, you sit with it poitning at your door or at a choke ponjt waiting for the person to come into your line of fire and shoot them.

I would also argue and say if you can use a shotgun so-so effectively you could transfer sufficent skills over to use a rifle so-so effectively. You arent going to be the fastest at magzine changes etc, but so long as you know how to charge it and take the safety off etc, you should be good. You arent likely to need to reload anyway. Vice versa as well for rifle to shotgun. (semi automatic more so than slide though)

You can argue about training all you want, its not economical for some people nor is it going to stop somone grabbing a pistol to defend themselves. And its not nessisarily good training. And if you live in a place that crime is so bad, the amount of times you would have to use your firearm would probbly comp your need for formal training.

addendum: actually thats where a shotgun might be better, birdshot and no 3-4 buck doesnt over pen and usually stops in walls and is fairly common and cheap for shotguns, and thats pretty good home defence ammuntion. Might be chepaer on average than frangilbe rifle ammuntion.

 

[lklawson]

Just getting back to this. Not much here, except that you did completely miss the point. This is like seeing an accident where a vehicle plows into a group of people, and the question the bus guys are asking everyone is, "Was it an automatic or a manual transmission? Was it over 20' long? Did the guy have a commercial driver's license?"

That's the point. I made up some gobbledygook, fictional weapons because the things you think are important really are not. They're red herrings. If a person invented a way to shoot 400 to 800 arrows from a single bow in about a minute, we'd be talking about those weapons, too. Particularly if 'bow guys' started talking about them using terms like "primary offense."

This is 1) dipping too heavily into politics and will get the thread shut down if we continue on it (I've seen it happen before) 2) not going anywhere.

 

[lklawson]

Is the SBS barrel length the same as a rifles? Sub 16 inches is a SBS?

But for a few notable exceptions, yes. Shotgun barrels under 18" are considered Short Barreled Shotguns and are regulated.

I dont think there is much merit in a sub 14 inch barrel for a AR15. Im pretty sure the ballstics start to degrade quite a bit and im not too sure how reliable the shorter systems are. And i just remmebered there is a 5 inch AR 15 barrel you can get.

If it's chambered for 5.56 and the ammo is typical commercial ammo and not specifically loaded for that barrel length (almost a custom job, really), then, yes, you are right.

If it's chambered for something else, such as 300 AAC Blackout then it could change the applicability of the barrel length.

Its fundementally prefrence/micro detail for if a shotgun or rifle would be better, but a shotgun tends to be a general purpose thing for most people and not specilsied to just be for home defence. That and i dont think SBS's are nearly as popular as SBR's

But it shouldn't be, imo. Ever see someone try to break clays with a 18" bbl Mossberg 500 Tactical? Ever try to do house clearing with a Remington 870 in the 30" barrel "dove gun" config?

Back in the bad ol' days, shotguns were more like Henry Ford's "you can have it in any color you want as long as it's black." But now we have more disposable income (as a society), vastly more options, and dramatically better technology in shotguns. It's entirely reasonable now for most people to be able to have separate shotguns for turkey, deer, dove, and home-defense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[elder999]

You are correct i don't. That is because nobody knows the subject material.

Best gun for home defense? Because of all the times that has happened to us right?

Everyone is working hypothetically here. So if someone pretends they know the subject they are lying.

Back in NY, during the crack epidemic, I had someone break into my house while my family was sleeping.

Twice.

Both times, the "KER-CHUCK" of death, me racking the shotgun at the top of the stairs, and saying, "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE OR I WILL SHOOT YOU" had them scurrying away.

 

[lklawson]

I'd be comfortable with a 8-9 inch barrel for a .300 AAC AR-15, but not a 5.56mm.

You could tune your ammo if you were a hand-loader. Probably have to "tune" the AR for it as well. I don't think you'll ever get the same ballistics, but you could definitely improve them from factory standard ammo.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

A few exist that i think i know of, but that just seems pointless, and its hardly been adopted by anyone probbly for a good reason.

KelTec, literally, can't make enough of their KSG shotguns and I know for a fact that they're approved and in use in some LEO agencies. Police One reviewed it a few years ago:
Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun

WATCH: STL Joseph Garcia and the Guns He Uses During a Prison Riot

“We primarily use the KelTec KSG shotguns,” Garcia said.​

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Grenadier]

Admin's Note:

This forum is for the discussion of the actual weapons themselves, which can include technical aspects, functionality, usage, etc., pretty much anything BUT politics.

Keep the politics out of this forum. If you want to discuss political matters when it comes to firearms, go here instead:

USMessageboard.com

We've been pretty generous in terms of giving some folks some leeway, but some of you are really treading on thin ice to the point where you're going to get warning points dumped on you without any further warning.

 

[Steve]

This is 1) dipping too heavily into politics and will get the thread shut down if we continue on it (I've seen it happen before) 2) not going anywhere.

It's only political if you make it political, though I agree it's not going anywhere. When we talk about guns for self defense, the discussion intrinsically brings with it an evaluation of whether the guns are more like to help or hinder that effort. Simply put, does keeping a gun in the house increase or decrease one's likelihood of being injured or killed? That's not a political question. It's a very practical one.

 

[lklawson]

Simply put, does keeping a gun in the house increase or decrease one's likelihood of being injured or killed? That's not a political question. It's a very practical one.

The metrics say no. I've pointed you to several of them now.