Set up 2 on 1

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you use 2 hands to control your opponent 1 arm, you will give your opponent 1 free arm to punch you. IMO, it's better to control your opponent's free arm as long as you can before you apply 2 on 1.

Here is 1 way to set up 2 on 1. Your thought?

 

[JowGaWolf]

When you use 2 hands to control your opponent 1 arm, you will give your opponent 1 free arm to punch you. IMO, it's better to control your opponent's free arm as long as you can before you apply 2 on 1.

Here is 1 way to set up 2 on 1. Your thought?

Same concept as "pinning".. Where you pin the arm against the body to make the other one ineffective. Sometimes you can control both arms by only pinning one, or at a minimum decrease the effectiveness of the free arm.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Same concept as "pinning".. Where you pin the arm against the body to make the other one ineffective. Sometimes you can control both arms by only pinning one, or at a minimum decrease the effectiveness of the free arm.

Do you thing this principle can be applied in the ground game as well?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you thing this principle can be applied in the ground game as well?

Definitely. pin one arm and make the other one useless. I think this become more dangerous on the ground game because the concept start to apply to other parts of the body and not just the arm. In the stand up game, I really only need to pin the arm long enough to do my next move. Depending on what I'm doing, my opponent may still have mobility, but can't strike back before I land my strike.

On the ground this concept can end up becoming more of a "lasting one." By "lasting" I mean the pin tends to last longer to the point where the only reason you can get loose is if your opponent lets you go, you pass out, a bone breaks, or you die. In the stand up striking game, you will be free from the pin but you might be knocked out by the following strike.

 

[Danny T]

Ab

Do you thing this principle can be applied in the ground game as well?

Absolutely...and is used often.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

When you use 2 hands to control your opponent 1 arm, you will give your opponent 1 free arm to punch you. IMO, it's better to control your opponent's free arm as long as you can before you apply 2 on 1.

Here is 1 way to set up 2 on 1. Your thought?

Here's my bit. You don't (or at least I don't) generally want to set up a 2 on 1 with hands, when the other hand is free. Theoretically, you should only be in 2 on 1 either as a transitionary thing (you are grabbing both and immediately following with a throw for instance), or while using body positioning/spacing to ensure that the other person can't punch you. That's generally something like positioning yourself to the left of him, while controlling left arm/shoulder, and using that control to prevent them from getting the twist for a full punch.

 

[skribs]

When you use 2 hands to control your opponent 1 arm, you will give your opponent 1 free arm to punch you. IMO, it's better to control your opponent's free arm as long as you can before you apply 2 on 1.

Here is 1 way to set up 2 on 1. Your thought?

That depends. If you can do 2-on-1 in such a way that their structure is completely broken, then you have 2 legs and they have nothing. For example, if you can get a wristlock to roll their shoulder over, something like these*:

I wish I could find better pictures (as I've said before, my google-fu sucks). The first one is a little exaggerated, and mine isn't at the right angle to show what I'm talking about properly. But anyway...

If you get a wristlock like this, you have 2 free legs and 0 free hands. Your opponent has:

• One arm in the lock
• One arm with his body between you, and the lock preventing much shoulder movement
• One leg away from you
• One leg with his weight on it towards you (which means he can't kick)

From this position, in order to regain a neutral footing, he will need to both get his weight centered and break free of the grip before he can do much. Whereas you can kick, or transition to a better grip for a throw.

A lot of our techniques try and do things like this. If I put 2 hands on 1 of your hands, I'm trying to do so from a position where you can't use your other hand.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you can do 2-on-1 in such a way that their structure is completely broken, ...

Agree that if you

- have started to execute your technique, or
- start your technique from the side door,

you may not have too much concern about your opponent's free arm.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When you use 2 hands to control your opponent 1 arm, you will give your opponent 1 free arm to punch you. IMO, it's better to control your opponent's free arm as long as you can before you apply 2 on 1.

Here is 1 way to set up 2 on 1. Your thought?

I don't actually see how that keeps his arms out of the fight. It removes (if you get that much contact) the ability to punch, but something as simple as rolling over the wrist of the first hand changes the mechanics and structure and leaves a lot of grappling options open.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

rolling over the wrist ...

When a striker does that to you, he is playing your wrestling game and he is not playing his striking game.

We do the following drill all the time.

- I try to grab your wrist.
- You rotate your wrist the same direction to escape my grip (or grab back on my wrist).
- I rotate my wrist the same direction to escape your grip (or grab back on your wrist).

We can repeat this drill over and over non-stop. We also do this kind drill for under hook and over hook. It's fun and you should try it.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I think you can clinch in a manner in which one arm is pinned and move yourself out of effective punching distance/angle of the other arm, probably a stretch to be a 2 on 1 though. (by that i mean fit into the context of the thread/what you meant)

 

[skribs]

When a striker does that to you, he is playing your wrestling game and he is not playing his striking game.

We do the following drill all the time.

- I try to grab your wrist.
- You rotate your wrist the same direction to escape my grip (or grab back on my wrist).
- I rotate my wrist the same direction to escape your grip (or grab back on your wrist).

We can repeat this drill over and over non-stop. We also do this kind drill for under hook and over hook. It's fun and you should try it.

We've had this happen when we try and do symmetrical sparring in hapkido. I've never had it happen in freestyle sparring in my TKD class, and rarely in asymmetrical sparring in hapkido.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

We've had this happen when we try and do symmetrical sparring in hapkido. I've never had it happen in freestyle sparring in my TKD class, and rarely in asymmetrical sparring in hapkido.

The reason is simple. A strike will use striking strategy. A wrestler will use wrestling strategy.

To rotate your arms the same direction as your opponent's arms are rotating may only be used in wrestling.

 

[skribs]

The reason is simple. A strike will use striking strategy. A wrestler will use wrestling strategy.

To rotate your arms the same direction as your opponent's arms are rotating may only be used in wrestling.

You're lumping things into categories when you don't have to.

 

[Gweilo]

That depends. If you can do 2-on-1 in such a way that their structure is completely broken, then you have 2 legs and they have nothing. For example, if you can get a wristlock to roll their shoulder over, something like these*:

I wish I could find better pictures (as I've said before, my google-fu sucks). The first one is a little exaggerated, and mine isn't at the right angle to show what I'm talking about properly. But anyway...

If you get a wristlock like this, you have 2 free legs and 0 free hands. Your opponent has:

• One arm in the lock
• One arm with his body between you, and the lock preventing much shoulder movement
• One leg away from you
• One leg with his weight on it towards you (which means he can't kick)

From this position, in order to regain a neutral footing, he will need to both get his weight centered and break free of the grip before he can do much. Whereas you can kick, or transition to a better grip for a throw.

A lot of our techniques try and do things like this. If I put 2 hands on 1 of your hands, I'm trying to do so from a position where you can't use your other hand.

Just an observation, the bottom picture, the defender has his right hand to the outside of the wrist, and his fingers on the points in the wrist of the heart meridian, the left hand on the wrist and points on the liver meridian, could he not get just the same leverage, by, moving the position in the 1st picture, releasing his left arm, and if we say he is at , let's say between 8 and 9 o'clock, if he moved to 7 o'clock, kept the grip of the right arm, but then moved the arm more towards let's say ,1 o'clock, he would have the same effect, but have the left hand free?

 

[skribs]

Just an observation, the bottom picture, the defender has his right hand to the outside of the wrist, and his fingers on the points in the wrist of the heart meridian, the left hand on the wrist and points on the liver meridian, could he not get just the same leverage, by, moving the position in the 1st picture, releasing his left arm, and if we say he is at , let's say between 8 and 9 o'clock, if he moved to 7 o'clock, kept the grip of the right arm, but then moved the arm more towards let's say ,1 o'clock, he would have the same effect, but have the left hand free?

The second hand makes it a lot harder to slip out of the grip. Sometimes you can get by with one, but two is a lot more secure. Having two thumbs also gives you more control over where the pressure goes, it's harder to roll out of as well.

Sometimes I can get the grip with one-hand, but sometimes I can't. I also have tiny little hands, so that plays a part as well.

 

[Gweilo]

The second hand makes it a lot harder to slip out of the grip. Sometimes you can get by with one, but two is a lot more secure. Having two thumbs also gives you more control over where the pressure goes, it's harder to roll out of as well.

Sometimes I can get the grip with one-hand, but sometimes I can't. I also have tiny little hands, so that plays a part as well.

But if you took a step closer, and moved his arm towards his other shoulder he couldn't roll out, and you would have a hand free plus 2 legs, one to structure break the rear of the knee, and your left hand to control the head if he tried to turn inwards.

 

[Gweilo]

I am not saying a two hand grip is wrong, yes you have an element of control, but you need to use your whole body, and adapt.

 

[Gweilo]

If you took a step closer, all you have to do, is nudge his hips with yours, and his balance has gone.

 

[skribs]

@Gweilo You're giving me movement advice based on a picture.