Self Traning and Ranking Group

[American HKD]

Greetings,

I propose a group dedicated to teaching, ranking, and propagating the art of Korean Hapkido independent of any other group. No politics need be here!

This group will not have any membership dues.

1. A testing or promotion board of three masters and no single person can issue any Dan rank even the person's own instructor. (A vote can choose the board and re-elect every year or two if needed)

2. A minimum rank requirements with minimum time in rank for all belts through 4th Dan. (published on the web somewhere with our credtials and requirement)

3. No other governing obligations.
4. Seminars and workshops as people want.

5. The rest is up to the individual school/instructor.

6. No fees other than reasonable testing or rank fees and seminar fees.

7. Membership only requires one hold a dan rank from us or they train under a members school.

8. No one has to quit his or her current Association or ties to belong.

There's no reason why people like Hal, Holcombe, Myself, Fabian and others can't issue our own very credible Dan ranks as a group. I think the ranks will be as good as any out there today.

We don't need Koreans for any validation anymore.

This is a no brainer and long over due.

If any High Dans support this idea please contact me personally. I will dedicate my time and resources to make this happen and be good for all involved.

 

[SmellyMonkey]

There's no reason why people like Hal, Holcombe, Myself, Fabian and others can't issue our own very credible Dan ranks as a group. I think the ranks will be as good as any out there today.

We don't need Koreans for any validation anymore.

Seems a little...hmmm...

Never mind. Not going to go there.

 

[American HKD]

Seems a little...hmmm...

Never mind. Not going to go there.

Jeremy,

If your not a newbie to HKD or KMA you would realize that a piece of paper from someone in Korea who has no idea who you are dosen't care about you is not that great. I've been there done that.

But when people here in your own country with the same rank and skills as the people in Korea see you test you and validate your rank isn't that worth a a lot more?

Or are you hung up on the Koreans are better and know more then other American Masters and you must bend over for them?

 

[Disco]

SM, please go there........... I have been a proponent of this for a while now, but would like to hear your viewpoint.

 

[SmellyMonkey]

Jeremy,

If your not a newbie to HKD or KMA you would realize that a piece of paper from someone in Korea who has no idea who you are dosen't care about you is not that great. I've been there done that.

But when people here in your own country with the same rank and skills as the people in Korea see you test you and validate your rank isn't that worth a a lot more?

Or are you hung up on the Koreans are better and know more then other American Masters and you must bend over for them?

My first issue is your "us" vs "them" mentality. Us being Americans and Them being Koreans. Like somehow it is the Koreans in general who are the problem.

It's not the Koreans who are the problem. There are Koreans who are part of the problem, as there are Americans who are part of the problem, as there are people of MANY nationalities who are part of the problem.

The problem is greed. The problem is pride. Americans OR Koreans OR anyone with an excess of these problems are the issue.

My second issue is that I don't think this will bring all hapkidoists together. I think adding another governing body will open the door for another round of political squabbling and further polerization. That's not what we need.

I'm all for more seminars and get togethers and what have you. But the promotion by other's aspect = a new governing body.

I'll leave my promotions up to my master. I trust that she will promote me when I deserve the promotion, and hold me back if I need to be held back. She's the person who sees me 5+ hours a week, so she knows at what level I started at and how far I've come better then anyone. So it's called "honor thy teacher".

Jeremy

 

[Andrew Green]

If what you want is no politics, no greed, just training, then why would you need ANOTHER political organization?

Don't bother, just all be independent with people you like to train with and have fun.

The structure is the problem, and you're using basically the same structure.

 

[American HKD]

My first issue is your "us" vs "them" mentality. Us being Americans and Them being Koreans. Like somehow it is the Koreans in general who are the problem.

It's not the Koreans who are the problem. There are Koreans who are part of the problem, as there are Americans who are part of the problem, as there are people of MANY nationalities who are part of the problem.

The problem is greed. The problem is pride. Americans OR Koreans OR anyone with an excess of these problems are the issue.

My second issue is that I don't think this will bring all hapkidoists together. I think adding another governing body will open the door for another round of political squabbling and further polerization. That's not what we need.

I'm all for more seminars and get togethers and what have you. But the promotion by other's aspect = a new governing body.

I'll leave my promotions up to my master. I trust that she will promote me when I deserve the promotion, and hold me back if I need to be held back. She's the person who sees me 5+ hours a week, so she knows at what level I started at and how far I've come better then anyone. So it's called "honor thy teacher".

Jeremy

Jeremy

I can tell by your responces you are new and nieve to the realities of the Hapkido world. I'm sorry nothing personal I don't have the energy to try to educate you in this forum and I cant give you my 25 years expirience in this Art.

At your level you should rely on your Master that's where any good students head should be I respect you for that.

Please without offense to anyone.

This post is geared towards Instructors and Masters who been around the block so to speak and have a 4th, 5th dan or more in HKD.
You are the people who are in positions to have a voice and make things happen.

 

[jkn75]

This post is geared towards Instructors and Masters who been around the block so to speak and have a 4th, 5th dan or more in HKD.
You are the people who are in positions to have a voice and make things happen.

But then who will be in your organization? Yes, certain people can make things happen as far as creating the organization, but future members may have some concerns and questions. As you know, regardless of rank, you can learn quite a bit from people who ask off the wall questions.

If this is only targeted towards high ranking hapkido people, why post in a public forum? Why not contact them in private?

Not everyone knows your 25 year history in Hapkido. You may have good reasons to start a new organization but they may be bogus. The Korean Martial Art forum spends a great amount of time trying to discover these things. We are very curious about history and motivations behind any organization.

I wish you luck in your endeavor but people are going to comment, that is the boon (and bane) of a public forum.

 

[American HKD]

But then who will be in your organization? Yes, certain people can make things happen as far as creating the organization, but future members may have some concerns and questions. As you know, regardless of rank, you can learn quite a bit from people who ask off the wall questions.

If this is only targeted towards high ranking hapkido people, why post in a public forum? Why not contact them in private?

Not everyone knows your 25 year history in Hapkido. You may have good reasons to start a new organization but they may be bogus. The Korean Martial Art forum spends a great amount of time trying to discover these things. We are very curious about history and motivations behind any organization.

I wish you luck in your endeavor but people are going to comment, that is the boon (and bane) of a public forum.

Greetings,

You have some good questions and I respect your curiousity but, as I stated it's for seniors to work out not every one who had one HKD lesson if you get my drift.

I'm sure you don't butt into a group of seniors and start getting to thier converstaion uninvited? Respect, Maners, Knowing when and where to speak is part of HKD training too.

I'm sorry to sound like I'm picking on you. You can start another thread to talk about it with yourselves or be immature and interupt this thread if it every gets going.

 

[Disco]

Stuart, we have items that we see sort of eye to eye on, but I feel your a tad outside the box with your comments stipulating only senior players need to respond. Your initial post did not state that intent, so the door was opened, on an open forum, which lends itself for all to participate. Granted the questions presented were old ones, but the new people should be given the opportunity to learn, even if it's tedium for those of us that have been there.

Respectfully
Mike

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Such a group to model from has been in existence in the UK for MANY years, called the Amateur Martial Association, they are totally self regulated across lots of arts, the same model would work easily with one. If interested, I think I can dredge up some info.

 

[iron_ox]

Also, how about a forum geared toward those of us with a few years in? They have one here for the senior Kenpo guys?

How about us?

 

[ajs1976]

Also, how about a forum geared toward those of us with a few years in? They have one here for the senior Kenpo guys?

How about us?

You guys and MT can do what you want. but from the perspective of someone with no time in who is using these discussions to learn about hapkido, the idea of a restricted board sucks.

 

[American HKD]

Hello all,

Such a group to model from has been in existence in the UK for MANY years, called the Amateur Martial Association, they are totally self regulated across lots of arts, the same model would work easily with one. If interested, I think I can dredge up some info.

Kevin,

To me this post will be the tell tale sign of what the seniors on this board are willing to do or just continue to talk about the problems with our current Associations and do nothing.

I see this as a hugh step in unity of people, curriculum, ideas, brotherhood, without the negitive asspects. My proposal is simple, non-restrictive, and low cost, all that's needed in for people to unite.

If it doesn't and we hear the same thing over and over I'll understand most are full of you know what.

 

[American HKD]

Stuart, we have items that we see sort of eye to eye on, but I feel your a tad outside the box with your comments stipulating only senior players need to respond. Your initial post did not state that intent, so the door was opened, on an open forum, which lends itself for all to participate. Granted the questions presented were old ones, but the new people should be given the opportunity to learn, even if it's tedium for those of us that have been there.

Respectfully
Mike

Mike,

I know who you are so I'll give you some explanations.

First the younger folks can learn by listening and reading they don't always have to talk.

Lower ranking student don't teach professionally, don't have the expirience, don't issue rank, arn't responsible for the next generation of students so in a sense they just don't count in this case plain and simple.

Do you consult a 5th Gup before issuing rank to a 1st Dan or do you get a 1st Dans opinion to promote someone to 5th Dan. That's just non-sense of course!

The Confucian philosophy of the Martial Arts is not a democratic system of everyones vote counts and all have a voice. It's quite clear that many American students don't understand the teachings and conduct of Traditional MA culture.

I sugguest they learn about it, as well as learning when thier opinions are relavent to some discussions.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Folks:

In theory, I can support what being said. Maybe here is another way to think about the approach.

A lesser known operating system for computers is "Red Hat". Its an open souce system that a lot of people like. Its not actually "owned" or "operated" by anyone in the usual sense, and people who use it work to make it better because to do so helps everyone else.

Now, WINDOWS is far better recognized, is managed by a corporation, is used by a far greater number of people in their computers. One is not actually "better" than the other but they definitely draw different kinds of people.

If a person were to do something like this with Hapkido arts it would require people to do many of the following.

1.) Park their rank and standing at the door before they come it.

2.) Set aside political affiliations and slavish support to this personality or that.

3.) Think out of the box, study-up on subjects and pitch-in without thought of compensation or recognition.

4.) Learn to function among the group without being controlled by an external ethic (IE Membership by-laws, organization rules) but rather by an internal ethic (IE. altruism, idealism).

These are pretty tall orders and I wonder if people are ready for a challenge such as this. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[American HKD]

Dear Folks:

In theory, I can support what being said. Maybe here is another way to think about the approach.

A lesser known operating system for computers is "Red Hat". Its an open souce system that a lot of people like. Its not actually "owned" or "operated" by anyone in the usual sense, and people who use it work to make it better because to do so helps everyone else.

Now, WINDOWS is far better recognized, is managed by a corporation, is used by a far greater number of people in their computers. One is not actually "better" than the other but they definitely draw different kinds of people.

If a person were to do something like this with Hapkido arts it would require people to do many of the following.

1.) Park their rank and standing at the door before they come it.

2.) Set aside political affiliations and slavish support to this personality or that.

3.) Think out of the box, study-up on subjects and pitch-in without thought of compensation or recognition.

4.) Learn to function among the group without being controlled by an external ethic (IE Membership by-laws, organization rules) but rather by an internal ethic (IE. altruism, idealism).

These are pretty tall orders and I wonder if people are ready for a challenge such as this. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce

I don't believe this to be has hard as you think.

The challanges are getting a few well respected seniors to endorse it and agree on a curriculum. That's it.

The rest is cake a testing board once or twice a year or a few seminar dates?

My concern is the seniors will just sit in the tenches of old with thier ranks and status taking it to the grave or will they help set up something better for the future of the younger generation so they won't have to go through what we did.

WHO'S EVER ON BOARD WITH THIS IDEA CONTACT ME DIRECTLY TO BEGIN PLANNING.

 

[howard]

If what you want is no politics, no greed, just training, then why would you need ANOTHER political organization?

Don't bother, just all be independent with people you like to train with and have fun.

The structure is the problem, and you're using basically the same structure.

sadly, i believe this gentleman is correct.

i admire the idealism in this thread, but the cynical side of me says to follow the above advice.

 

[American HKD]

sadly, i believe this gentleman is correct.

i admire the idealism in this thread, but the cynical side of me says to follow the above advice.

Howard,

1. Who said anything about a POLITICAL ORGANIZATION?
2. This is what people wanted and spoke about a united Hapkido.

My outline is to do just that with minimum requirements, no dues, no bosses, no giving up old ties to any other Associations, the only requirment is to test for rank!

The only problem is people egos, They wont be able to make money from it, they won't be able to be the boss. They only actually have to train, learn, grow, and test for rank.

I guess it just too simple!

 

[Disco]

Stuart, Thanks for your reply. I understand were your coming from and I am in agreement with you on the issues you presented.

As you stated, The challanges are getting a few well respected seniors to endorse it and agree on a curriculum. That's it.

This idea has been labored not only by yourself but by yours truely for the past year. We have been on several forums professing the same agenda. All have met with less than accepting response. We are caught in a catch 22 of sorts. For a new organization to have any chance for acceptance / validity, a person(s) of sufficient rank is needed. I don't think any will be coming forward to offer participation. They have had sufficient time already to answer the bell. I don't have the answer, I wish I did. People like you who honestly give of yourself to train and respect your art deserve something better than what's available now. It's a nasty circle of rank dosen't mean anything until something needs to be addressed and then rank becomes paramount. Danmed if you do and damned if you don't.

Anyway, you have my support, for what it's worth. If I can help in any way, just let me know.

Respectfully
Mike