Seiunchin, Naihanchi, Wansu, Chinto...

SahBumNimRush

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Just FYI, I did get my Ouchi Ouchi video uploaded but you may have missed it; it's on page 1 of the thread. I'm interested in your observations on it.

Coming from a Japanese/Okinawan rooted art that does not use Japanese terminology, could you explain to me what "ouchi ouchi" is? As an outsider looking in, your recoiling arms appear to be generating more force than your your recoiling/snapping waist/hips. Is this what you are intending?

I only ask, because I am trying to educate myself, not to be critical.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Coming from a Japanese/Okinawan rooted art that does not use Japanese terminology, could you explain to me what "ouchi ouchi" is? As an outsider looking in, your recoiling arms appear to be generating more force than your your recoiling/snapping waist/hips. Is this what you are intending?

I only ask, because I am trying to educate myself, not to be critical.

This is a block followed by two inside hook punches. The force is generated by the twisting of the hips (actually more of the entire body, but snapping out of the body in the hips 'koshi') and indeed the arms move inwards rapidly. The arms hang not to the sides of the body but at a slight angle to it - not quite 45 degrees. The fists are the force appliers, not the arms. As if the fists were lead weights on the end of a jointed stick. In fact, this movement is seen in the 'Japanese Drum' scene in the original "Karate Kid" movie. This is not a simple movement, but I love it.

Some think of it as a 'Tarzan' punch, and go at it like they are pounding on their own chests, but it's not that at all. It has many applications.

Imagine an incoming straight punch; you move either in or out, as appropriate, but angle your body to intercept and redirect the punch with the first movement, where you see my hand open and vertical. This is simulating me contacting the back of the attacker's elbow or upper arm; I am outside their frame now, and redirecting their punch away from me. I am, however, very close to them; almost in their grill at a 45 degree angle. I am too close to punch in the standard manner, and far too close to kick. Now that I have entered in, I choose to strike. I do this by dropping my hands as fists to my sides - not straight down but at a slight angle - and applying koshi such that my fists fly up, seemingly on their own, and curl inwards, crashing into whatever the target might be. Perhaps the bottom of their attacking arm, on the tricep or bicep. Perhaps to the ribs or vital organs available. The strikes can also be used twice each; strike on the way in, continue past, rotate back, strike on the way out as a hammer fist.

In fact, the bunkai for this exercise is nearly endless; our Sensei has shown us locks, punches, armbars, even throws that come out of this basic exercise. Basically, you've deflected or redirected their blow, and you're in so close to them that they cannot effectively strike at you without moving out of your frame; everything they have is in your centerline and their own centerline faces away from you. Western fighters tend not to expect this. They prefer to punch to the head with overhand or roundhouse punches, in a linear fashion. If they enter in, it's to grapple. This is my favorite exercise because I can use my size and my strength very effectively. The taller my opponent is, the more I have him at a disadvantage if I can enter in like this. I settle and his tender vittles are there for my lunch, and I can eat at that lunch counter all day long! :)

Here it is done by an actual expert:



At time 4:58. We do not bend our wrists as he does, but the movement is similar.
 
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Jason Striker II

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Might as well get them all out there at once. I don't have a Kusanku yet, because I'm still working on the kata, and I have not yet started on Sunsu. But here's the rest. I'm disgusted the more I look at them; I can't believe the things I was doing. Low kicks, stances wrong, looking down instead of at the fight line, etc. However, please feel free to add your comments and constructive criticism.

Seiunchin


[video=youtube_share;86Oab-bMRw0]http://youtu.be/86Oab-bMRw0[/video]

Naihanchi


[video=youtube_share;f2cpEs_Zw7M]http://youtu.be/f2cpEs_Zw7M[/video]

Wansu


[video=youtube_share;IAE-DZ0w84c]http://youtu.be/IAE-DZ0w84c[/video]

Chinto


[video=youtube_share;oFXYfLJJs4U]http://youtu.be/oFXYfLJJs4U[/video]

As a general comment on your Kata, I would say, "More definition of technique, and more Kime." The old 1960's videos of Shimabuku Sensei are not good examples (in fact, I have heard he was actually ill when doing those). The best examples I know of on Youtube are Michael Calandra - absolutely beautiful Isshin Ryu Kata.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6E2sdmcz9Q

Keep training! Osu!
 
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Bill Mattocks

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As a general comment on your Kata, I would say, "More definition of technique, and more Kime." The old 1960's videos of Shimabuku Sensei are not good examples (in fact, I have heard he was actually ill when doing those). The best examples I know of on Youtube are Michael Calandra - absolutely beautiful Isshin Ryu Kata.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6E2sdmcz9Q

Keep training! Osu!

Thank you for your comments! I know I need lots more reps, more practice, more everything. However, I had to chuckle at your comment about Shimabuku Soke. I have heard that as well; for example, at a recent Isshin-Ryu seminar, I was told to sink down further into my stance in Seuinchin. However, we do ours higher than many; this is, for whatever reason, the way I am taught to do it. When I mentioned this to the instructor at the seminar, he said "Shimabuku Soke, OLD MAN KATA!" Well, yes. He was in his 60's when he made those videos. But given that I'm 50 and my Sensei is...well, let's say older than I am...and he's an incredible practitioner...I have a hard time equating 60 with 'old man kata'. So yes, my group (UIKA affiliated) tend to perform the kata the way Master Mitchum wants us to. I'm not saying I'm doing it the way he wants me to; far from it, I'm a mere beginner; but just saying that I'm *taught* to do it the way Master Mitchum wants it taught.

I say this with much humility and I know how lacking my technique is by any standards, UIKA or anyone else. I will continue to train and seek feedback and guidance. Just sharing an amusing story about Shimabuku Soke's videos.
 

Yondanchris

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Bill, you're a big and powerful guy, but I don't get the sense that you're maximizing this asset in your performance of Seiunchin. Your arm movements appear disengaged from your body at times. If I were your sensei, I'd ask that you practice the kata very slowly and build for a sticky, sledgehammer effect, where the swings or movements are not necessarily fast but they have a visible thud to them with the body behind every shot. Seiunchin is a perfect showcase for that - it doesn't have to be performed quickly.

Ditto, although I'm a kempo guy I was expecting dynamic tension throughout the form. Take your time and "Nail It". I also have a couple questions:

1) are your hands supposed to come down to your sides during foot maneuver transitions?

2) Is every movement a stance change or a foot maneuver? are their "hidden" transitional stances (Cat, Horse, ect) that aren't been shown/highlighted in the form?
 

Yondanchris

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Another idea is to look up the kempo principle of settling aka marriage of gravity or center of mass, both are sources of power generation that I could see implemented in the form...I will try to find a video....
 

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