Seishin Mizu Ryu Tatakai Jutsu

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by Rabbitthekitten, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Rabbitthekitten

    Rabbitthekitten Green Belt

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    Does anyone know anything about this? Is it legit? I read a good review about it and it looks interesting to me. But I'm a newbie so I figured I'd ask here.
     
  2. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    It's another invented jujutsu style with a wonky pseudo-Japanese name. No idea what they profess to be or do, so I can't say whether it is "legit" or not. Have you got a link to their web site or founder's history? That could probably tell us a bit more, but I don't have time at the moment to Google them up.
     
  3. Rabbitthekitten

    Rabbitthekitten Green Belt

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  4. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    Hmmmmmm ..... interesting.
    It's definitely not a Japanese art as they claim. I only have dojo Japanese, but I can tell that the words that they're using for their kanji are not quite right.
    Looked at some Youtube vids of the Jitsu Foundation, and wasn't overly impressed. Not horrible mind you, just not quite what they make it out to be.

    Not having any direct knowledge of them, I would guess that they are just another judo based invented art that would like to be much more Japanese than they are. There are actually quite a number of those in the U.K. They didn't look horrible to me, so I would advise going and checking them out in person. Unless you're looking for a genuine Japanese koryu, then the desire to continue practicing regularly over a prolonged amount of time is much more important than the individual art that you're learning. :)

    P.S. Did some poking around, and came across this thread on e-budo where Wayne Muramoto discusses their use of Japanese definitions for their kanji. I thought it sounded funny ... Thread
     
  5. Rabbitthekitten

    Rabbitthekitten Green Belt

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    Thanks for the info. I was reading a blog about local martial arts schools. The writer has a couple of karate black belts and won gold at a European Championship a few years ago. Basically she went to as many of the local schools and did a class and wrote a review on it. My taekwondo class had a good review and this school did too. I was just looking for information really on the art. I might go down to have a look when I get the chance.
     
  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    This is the problem with someone having specialist knowledge in a field, and thinking it transfers across to a larger understanding... having "a couple of karate black belts" (whatever that actually refers to... I've seen it refer to dan grades in multiple forms of karate, or referring to multiple dan grades in one system, meaning that sandan, for example, is classed as "three [levels of] black belt"), or winning any championship at all really means absolutely nothing when it comes to critiquing or even recognising accurately anything from unrelated (or even somewhat related) arts.

    One sadly common example is the plethora of karate instructors who seem to think that, simply because they have experience and skill in their art, it transfers across to unrelated systems and methods, such as sword. That is almost universally terrible, by the way. It also leads to quite senior members of one particular art defending systems they don't have the requisite knowledge to actually know what they're defending... which is something I've seen many times over.

    Personally, I wouldn't put any stock in any outside reviews... I would, however, put more stock in people who know what they're talking about... and Wayne Muramoto, linked by Paul above, is certainly one of those. I was going to point out the same issues (most notably the "Tataki-jutsu" debacle), but, as usual, Wayne has said things far better than any other. Read his comments.
     
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  7. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    I remember a thread on e-budo years ago of pictures found on the web of karate instructors with swords. Some of them were hilarious. :)
     
  8. Rabbitthekitten

    Rabbitthekitten Green Belt

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    I think the review was based on the quality of teaching rather than the art itself. I studied astrophysics at university. I'm pretty confident that if I went to a series of science classes I would be able to pick up on who knew their stuff and who was chancer, whether the class be astrophysics, microbiology, geochemistry or whatever. Maybe if it was a sufficiently different subject such as biology I'd struggle to appreciate what is generally accepted fact and what is complete nonsense. But if you have a quality teacher they're generally not going to teach rubbish.

    Perhaps martial arts are different and you do get good teachers teaching bad subjects.

    Now on the art itself, maybe it does have a bad name. Maybe it is Judo with a few bits from other things thrown in but does that necessarily make it bad? As someone on the link says it meets the requirements of the BJJA. Unless they are corrupt and/or incompetent perhaps judgement should be reserved until one actually see's it.

    Mr Muramoto does critisise the name and argues that if they can't get the name right then they probably won't get anything else correct. I suck at ancient Greek and Latin. But I'm pretty confident that I could pass any undergraduate stellar astrophysics exam in any reputable university. Mispronouncing or even badly translating something does not mean much in my opinion. It's cosmetic.

    I'm going to have look next week. If it's nonsense I'll call it out as such. But I've been taught to keep an open mind and not to base anything on opinion or hearsay. I'll have a look at the evidence .
     
  9. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Here's the thing about using nonsense wording in Japanese if you want to do that by all means however others who can read kanji or actually practice classical styles will call you out on it. Equally frustrating is using aikijujutsu should see my other thread when someone claimed Daito Ryu and I showed up and he couldn't even do ippon dori.

    Names, lineages they mean something.
    There is to much BS in martial arts and people trying to scam people out of their money. Martial talk is a non fraud busting site, however, we can point inconsistencies and have people draw their own conclusions based on that.
    But again, maybe this group acknowledge that they created a modern style based on other arts here and there
     
  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you go to a bunch of science classes in a university setting, those teachers have already been vetted and you can feel confident that they are qualified to teach the subject, and are in fact doing so.

    Martial arts, in the big picture, doesn't have such a process. You might be able to recognize poo. But you might not.
     
  11. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    Yep, that's all you can do really. Just because they seem to be trying to be something they really aren't doesn't make them bad, just a bit misguided. There are a lot of places that want the Japanese "cachet" and feeling in their school without the bother of actually being connected to the Japanese. Whether what they practice is actually worth learning is an entirely different subject unless, as I said, you are really looking for a Japanese koryu.

    Let us know what you learn!
     

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