Scissorholds in MMA Fights

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Brownielox, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Brownielox

    Brownielox Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    So question for all of you who know MMA rules better than me:

    why are basic scissors like the bodyscissors or headscissors rarely if never used in MMA fights, both guy vs guy or girl vs girl?? Is it that they're not allowed or not effective for ending a fight?

    I had a heated talk with my friend after he said that scissors weren't effective in MMA and in general. I'd seen them used several times whenever I went to my school's wrestling matches. Seeing that and watching some of the female matches on stuff like WWE (I'll always remember Layla being my inspiration) and seeing how much pain the victim was in made me use it a lot whenever I used to grapple. Yes, I know that TV wrestling is fake, but seeing the amount of power of that hold really made me use that as a bread-and-butter kind of thing.

    Again, I'm a newbie to this sort of thing, so sorry if I come off as ignorant!
     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    907
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Well no ones in pain in wwe they're just good actors.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    14,525
    Likes Received:
    2,998
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I think I have seen 1 submission from a body scissors.

    But yeah hard to get. Hard to keep. And pretty easy to fight.

    Seriously the amount of porn I had to go through to find a video.

     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  4. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    2,281
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    253
    my mind went there just reading the title of the thread.
    back in the day it was thought that you could break a persons ribs from a scissor hold. that may be true. when i was younger and into back yard wrestling i used it and it seemed to work. it is possible that the amount of strength it takes to work would drain you. things need to be effortless. if you try to power through something like a scissor hold if you dont finish it, (and i really dont see anyone tapping out because of it) you will probably run out of gas and lose the fight.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Martial D

    Martial D Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    388
    Trophy Points:
    123
    When I was a kid I used to think the old 'double axe handle' wwf move looked pretty devastating. Tried it once and dislocated my pinky. I was 9.

    Or in other words, in all the mma matches that have ever happened, how many submissions have happened from a closed guard being too tight?

    A body triangle is way tighter and more torquey, but even that hasn't made anyone quit that I know of.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Brownielox

    Brownielox Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Haha...what do you guys mean by that? How is fighting related to porn? :funny:

    I understand where you guys are coming from...I guess a scissorhold isn't the best choice when you're also defending yourself against strikes on the ground. That, and because the person you're fighting (ideally) has a pretty well-built figure? This makes a lot of sense because I had a (former) friend who I used to grapple with from time to time just for friendly competition. Whenever I tapped him out, he made a big deal saying how if he was allowed to use fists and striking, I'd lose in a heartbeat... he was a black belt in tai kwon do (sp?).

    So this begs the question: are scissorholds more effective in grappling/wrestling, where you CAN'T use your fists??
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    14,525
    Likes Received:
    2,998
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I still think there was one I remember. But not common.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    14,525
    Likes Received:
    2,998
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Still no. There is almost always something better to try.

    Body triangle has a bit more application.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,644
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Oddly enough,
    The problem with the "scissorhold" isn't primarily with the risk of getting punched. It's that it isn't very effective, especially against an opponent with decent core strength.

    Oddly enough, the technique is banned in Judo, where it is called "do-jime." This probably goes back to the early days of Judo where there were no weight classes. If you have a 220 pounder using the technique on a 130 pounder, it can be more dangerous. Then again, everything is more dangerous with that kind of size discrepancy.

    In BJJ, practitioners work from the closed guard all the time and submitting someone with the "scissor-hold" is almost unheard of, even in open weight classes. There is a variation known as the "scorpion crunch" which can be effective, but it's hard to set up and relatively easy to counter. I don't know of a single example of it working in high-level competition.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Brownielox

    Brownielox Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    So people who submit to scissorholds are weaklings - got it! I'll be sure to rub that in my friends' faces next time:p :joyful:.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,397
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    One day when I walked in a parking lot toward my car, an Iran wrestler got me into a scissor hold (bear hug) from behind. He squeezed my body so hard and end with broken his own ribs. He might think that if he could just hold a bit longer, I would be collapsed.

    When you squeeze your opponent's body, you also squeeze your own body at the same time. Which body will collapse first may depend on individual's training.

    Don't expect that you will be able to squeeze your opponent to death. Use your leg, take him down, the game will then start from there.

     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  12. Brownielox

    Brownielox Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Huh....I've always been told that you could crack/fracture ribs with a scissorhold, but I've never held one long enough or had one held long enough on me to see it happen :/

    Back when I'd wrestle for fun, he'd tap within seconds and the number one reason was fear of broken ribs. I'd never wanna intentionally hurt someone, so I don't want to test this theory out
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,397
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Have you ever challenged someone, or be challenged by someone to strike your arm against his arm until one person gives up. Sometime the blood will jump out of both you and your opponent's arms and nobody wants to quite first.
     
  14. Brownielox

    Brownielox Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    That sounds like a very....specific and gross challenge. Haha no, I can't say that I've done that.. but there've been other times where guys (multiple) wanted to protect their little egos and refused to give up/submit....just because they're wrestling with me. I honestly think it's some stupid crap to rather push themselves to near-unconsciousness than just admit that their I have a good hold on them. Pride isn't worth it tbh
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017

Share This Page