Rolling with the Opposite Sex (Featuring Rener and Eve Gracie)

[Brian R. VanCise]

Interesting and important video put out by Rener Gracie and his wife
on rolling with women. Taken from my blog: The Instinctive Edge

 

[twins-mt]

good one, otherwise 90% of Rener is from different Space...

 

[Pwen Arye]

Personally I don't see why it is such an issue. I roll with both men and women and it doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[donnaTKD]

i train with both guys and girls so what is the big issue we've all got skills to the same standard so what's the big deal ?????

 

[Tony Dismukes]

i train with both guys and girls so what is the big issue we've all got skills to the same standard so what's the big deal ?????

It shouldn't be a big deal. It does tend to be more of an issue for some people in BJJ than in other arts because of the contact involved - we're rolling around on the ground tangled up together, laying on top of each other, holding each other between our legs, and so on. Some of those positions can be reminiscent of other activities besides fighting.

For some people there is also the competitive factor. We spend more time sparring than in most arts. Some people seem to have a problem with cross-gender competition, for a variety of reasons.

Interestingly enough, I see a lot more women training judo than BJJ, even though the two arts are closely related. I kind of wish that the BJJ community would step up and learn from the judo community whatever we need to attract and retain more female practitioners.

 

[Pwen Arye]

When I am being submitted/prezeled on the ground, awkwardness sorta goes out the window.

 

[skribs]

It shouldn't be a big deal. It does tend to be more of an issue for some people in BJJ than in other arts because of the contact involved - we're rolling around on the ground tangled up together, laying on top of each other, holding each other between our legs, and so on. Some of those positions can be reminiscent of other activities besides fighting.

While the other point you bring up is true of some people, this is I think the biggest reason why people would prefer not to cross-gender spar in a groundfighting art. I did wrestling in middle school. Our school had all guys, and i was probably 98% guys in the other schools as well. Of course, being middle school boys, we all said we wanted to wrestle against a girl because of the excuse to be that close. In actuality, the guy on my team who did have to go up against a girl *could* have won his match (he was in a dominant position and had the opening to pin, and he was good enough he could have), but he was too worried about inappropriately touching her during the match that he tried for another position, she reversed and he lost.

There are a lot of jokes about BJJ and being between the other person's legs, and there are several very awkward positions in wrestling as well (there's one pin that is WAY too intimate). With two straight guys or two straight girls, there's the understanding that it's about the art. But with a guy and a girl, it's a little awkward.

Edit to add: I think it's more awkward for guys than it is for girls (and this is just my personal opinion). I think it's largely cultural, but there is a big difference in the way each gender thinks about and approaches interactions with the other, and for the most part people erroneously assume everyone else has the same perspective as themselves.

 

[twins-mt]

I have always a problem with that case - if you will give her 100% of possibility she will never learn... if you will try to resist it's obviously that you will "win" ...

 

[Kurai]

Edit to add: I think it's more awkward for guys than it is for girls (and this is just my personal opinion). I think it's largely cultural, but there is a big difference in the way each gender thinks about and approaches interactions with the other, and for the most part people erroneously assume everyone else has the same perspective as themselves.

I definitely found that to be the case with my old JJJ sensei. If I had to work through a technique with her, I had problems with grabbing her lapels very high, or with just my fingertips. I credit her with helping me become a much better as a martial artist and a teacher, by getting me over my issues. I'm still polite mind you, but training is training and I treat it as just that. Thanks Ni Sensei.

 

[Buka]

I'll tell you one thing, the first time you roll with a women of a higher rank who can tie you into knots or submit you at her leisure, your opinion of rolling with the opposite sex changes. And I mean forever.

 

[twins-mt]

i'm sure it will be on your way - but on that point strenght comes up - and this is wrong for bjj...

 

[Sub Zero]

Its never been a problem for me rolling against girls. Like one poster said the only tricky part is finding the right balance of not to much force where they cant do anything and not to little so they can't, really, practice. Its especially troublesome for me because I'm very large (and from what sparring partners tell me) and strong. I pull guard but even then the strength factor still plays a part.

 

[Tez3]

I've found that grappling with men who aren't used to it causes a little embarrassment but they get over it quite quickly. There is however quite a bit of quiet embarrassment when men roll with men for the first time. There's a lot of nervous 'jokey' comments made about 'not looking into each others eyes' etc. That too passes and the competitive instinct kicks in but for many it's a strange thing to be so bodily close to someone who is not an emotional partner or member of the family. The worst bit for them at the start is the learning of techniques where they have to go slower and their hands and feet don't always go where they want them to, once they learn some techniques though and they actually start grappling the contact becomes about that and nothing else.

 

[Hanzou]

It shouldn't be a big deal. It does tend to be more of an issue for some people in BJJ than in other arts because of the contact involved - we're rolling around on the ground tangled up together, laying on top of each other, holding each other between our legs, and so on. Some of those positions can be reminiscent of other activities besides fighting.

For some people there is also the competitive factor. We spend more time sparring than in most arts. Some people seem to have a problem with cross-gender competition, for a variety of reasons.

Interestingly enough, I see a lot more women training judo than BJJ, even though the two arts are closely related. I kind of wish that the BJJ community would step up and learn from the judo community whatever we need to attract and retain more female practitioners.

The dearth of female practitioners at my gym is very noticeable. On a good night (about 25+ people) I can count the number of women there with one hand.

That said, the women who stay become VERY good, because they're constantly rolling with larger males.