Rise of Karate in MMA

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Just finished reading this article that suggests a rise of karate in MMA. The author goes back and forth with his own thoughts, but curious if anyone else has noticed this trend, since I've been noticing for a while that the more recent 'popular' mma fighters generally appear to have at least some TMA involved in their martial background.
Outside Fighting and the Rise of Karate in the UFC

 

[Steve]

Just finished reading this article that suggests a rise of karate in MMA. The author goes back and forth with his own thoughts, but curious if anyone else has noticed this trend, since I've been noticing for a while that the more recent 'popular' mma fighters generally appear to have at least some TMA involved in their martial background.
Outside Fighting and the Rise of Karate in the UFC

How are you defining "TMA?" Because, I'd say that most MMA fighters ever have at least some TMA involved in their martial background. From the beginning. In fact, I can't think of too many who don't. A few, but I'd say the guys who don't have at least some TMA in their background are the strong minority.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm referring primarily to different forms of karate, TKD, Hapkido, TSD, Kenpo, Judo, JJJ, and CMA's in general.
For the second part, I miswrote..meant people who have a TMA as one of their main arts.
I may be mistaken about my original statements because until recently I never really paid attention to MMA, but I'd always heard that most MMA fighters don't use TMA's as their primary arts. Only started paying attention recently, and started to notice when a new fighter is gaining in popularity, if they practice a TMA extra attention starts being focused on that.

 

[CNida]

Agreed. Totally depends on what you consider a TMA.

I can't say for sure whether or not karate is on the rise, but with Stephen Thompson's latest dominant victory over Hendricks, then its safe to say that we are being shown how Karate can be used to great effectiveness in MMA, especially against those who haven't trained to defend or counter those sort of attacks.

 

[Tez3]

MMA is mixed martial arts not 'modern' martial arts, it's made up of traditional martial arts. When it started many years ago now all fighters had a traditional martial art as their core, as it's expanding we now have MMA people who are coming into the sport who don't have a style already. The article is the wrong way around,
Karate was and is the base for many fighters, has been since the inception of MMA. In the beginning you had your base style and you had to train others to be able to compete. Judo/JJJ/grappling/wrestling people learnt stand up and vice versa. It's much better integrated now, joined up training but Karate has always been there as has TKD and other styles.
No one style provides everything in MMA, that's why it's called mixed martial arts, watch more than the UFC and you will see how it works.

 

[Steve]

MMA is mixed martial arts not 'modern' martial arts, it's made up of traditional martial arts. When it started many years ago now all fighters had a traditional martial art as their core, as it's expanding we now have MMA people who are coming into the sport who don't have a style already. The article is the wrong way around,
Karate was and is the base for many fighters, has been since the inception of MMA. In the beginning you had your base style and you had to train others to be able to compete. Judo/JJJ/grappling/wrestling people learnt stand up and vice versa. It's much better integrated now, joined up training but Karate has always been there as has TKD and other styles.
No one style provides everything in MMA, that's why it's called mixed martial arts, watch more than the UFC and you will see how it works.

What's she said.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My original post was in reference to an article on UFC, and while I said MMA I meant UFC..didn't think that was necessary because it's what the article was referring to, and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA.
As for what you said about the beginning, my understanding of the history (of the UFC) was that it started with a huge focus on the TMA's/a person's base style, then changed where most competitors incorporate a sport striking style and sport grappling style, with maybe a few supplemental arts but not as their primary art, and it is only recently that this appears to be changing.
Once again, I have only started to pay attention to it recently, so i can very easily be wrong.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I suspect that MMA people try to find techniques that aren't often used, use them, and if they are effective, others copy them. At the same time, people figure out defenses against those techs.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My original post was in reference to an article on UFC, and while I said MMA I meant UFC..didn't think that was necessary because it's what the article was referring to, and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA.
As for what you said about the beginning, my understanding of the history (of the UFC) was that it started with a huge focus on the TMA's/a person's base style, then changed where most competitors incorporate a sport striking style and sport grappling style, with maybe a few supplemental arts but not as their primary art, and it is only recently that this appears to be changing.
Once again, I have only started to pay attention to it recently, so i can very easily be wrong.

In the very beginning, the UFC (and many of the other early MMA promotions) was focused on "style vs. style" - who would win if you pitted a karateka vs a kung fu stylist, a boxer vs a jiu-jiteiro, a savate fighter vs a sumo wrestler, etc. In the first few years practitioners of a few styles were dominant and most (not all) fighters began cross-training primarily in those arts - BJJ, Wrestling, and Muay Thai to begin with, although Boxing and Sombo and Judo also had significant early influence. As time goes on, fighters have figured out how to effectively add different arts into the mix. When one of those fighters reaches a high level of success and visibility (such as winning a UFC championship) making significant use of one of these arts (such as Karate or TKD), it gets attention and as a result more and more fighters will start to incorporate that art into their training.

I'm referring primarily to different forms of karate, TKD, Hapkido, TSD, Kenpo, Judo, JJJ, and CMA's in general.

I think there's a definite false dichotomy if you are considering those arts to be more "traditional" than the arts which dominated in the early UFCs. BJJ is older than TKD, Hapkido and TSD. Muay Thai is as traditional as Karate. Wrestling is older than Judo.

 

[Tez3]

My original post was in reference to an article on UFC, and while I said MMA I meant UFC..didn't think that was necessary because it's what the article was referring to, and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA.
As for what you said about the beginning, my understanding of the history (of the UFC) was that it started with a huge focus on the TMA's/a person's base style, then changed where most competitors incorporate a sport striking style and sport grappling style, with maybe a few supplemental arts but not as their primary art, and it is only recently that this appears to be changing.
Once again, I have only started to pay attention to it recently, so i can very easily be wrong.

Do you want to discuss MMA the martial arts sport or do you want to discuss the UFC a profit making company? The two histories are not the same.
Your statement "and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA." is incorrect. You mean the UFC is the USA's primary sports competition, UFC is not a style. Fighters who come up from other promotions use whatever works for them, from whatever source they find as Bill has already intimated. Karate has always been there, fighters such as Chuck Liddell have used it, however when matched, fighters and their coaches work hard on tactics, they look at their opponents strengths and weaknesses. They then plan and train using their own strengths, if their opponent is not so good on the ground they will look to go to ground, if they are less good standing they will look to keep the fight standing. This may be why it appears that it is 'changing', in fact it's not, MMA is not static for reasons Bill has already explained.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My original post was in reference to an article on UFC, and while I said MMA I meant UFC..didn't think that was necessary because it's what the article was referring to, and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA.

Your statement "and in the US at least it's the primary competitive MMA." is incorrect. You mean the UFC is the USA's primary sports competition,

I think the more accurate statement is that the UFC is at this point the largest, most prestigious, publically visible, and highest paying MMA promotion. In the past there were various promotions that were positioning themselves to be competitors to the UFC, but over time they went out of business or were bought up by the UFC. At the present there are far more MMA promotions (in the US and worldwide) than ever before, but the UFC mostly treats them as feeder organizations for developing talent that can be recruited by the UFC rather than as business competition.

 

[Tez3]

I think the more accurate statement is that the UFC is at this point the largest, most prestigious, publically visible, and highest paying MMA promotion. In the past there were various promotions that were positioning themselves to be competitors to the UFC, but over time they went out of business or were bought up by the UFC. At the present there are far more MMA promotions (in the US and worldwide) than ever before, but the UFC mostly treats them as feeder organizations for developing talent that can be recruited by the UFC rather than as business competition.

I think my point is a bit lost here, from what the OP was saying he is equating the UFC with MMA, that it is a style of martial arts. My point is that the UFC is a sports promoting company not a martial arts style.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think my point is a bit lost here, from what the OP was saying he is equating the UFC with MMA, that it is a style of martial arts. My point is that the UFC is a sports promoting company not a martial arts style.

I was trying to state what Tony stated. UFC is not a style, but the fighters who compete in the UFC are the ones that I was referring to. It may not be a style, but there is definitely a culture surrounding it that effects it.

 

[drop bear]

You get you mma fighters from the pool of competitive fighters in that area. So a Brazil mmaer is more likley to be a bjjer. An American more likely to be a wrestler. Australia has top class muay Thai and sub par wrestling. So more likley to be strikers than wrestlers.

More karate guys are becoming mmaers Because more karate guys are mmaers. Once there is a path to follow people will jump on that.

This creates an incredible diversity of talent that falls within the mma concept.

 

[drop bear]

Just finished reading this article that suggests a rise of karate in MMA. The author goes back and forth with his own thoughts, but curious if anyone else has noticed this trend, since I've been noticing for a while that the more recent 'popular' mma fighters generally appear to have at least some TMA involved in their martial background.
Outside Fighting and the Rise of Karate in the UFC

Wait. If those tma methods work in the UFC does that mean they won't work in the street?

 

[drop bear]

I think my point is a bit lost here, from what the OP was saying he is equating the UFC with MMA, that it is a style of martial arts. My point is that the UFC is a sports promoting company not a martial arts style.

 

[Steve]

I think my point is a bit lost here, from what the OP was saying he is equating the UFC with MMA, that it is a style of martial arts. My point is that the UFC is a sports promoting company not a martial arts style.

agteed. And in a similar vein, Mma is a competition rule set and not a martial arts style, although it's closer now than in past decades.

 

[drop bear]

agteed. And in a similar vein, Mma is a competition rule set and not a martial arts style, although it's closer now than in past decades.

If you can go into a school and learn mma. It is a martial arts style. If you can go to integrated or Jackson mma and get a belt in mma. It is a martial arts style.

I mean what more do people want?

Same as if I did drop bear fu. It would be a martial arts style. And a damn good one.

 

[Steve]

I guess it depends on the definition. Maybe it's a martial art and also a competition rule set, depending on the context.

Drop bear fu... Sounds a little naughty.

 

[Tez3]

Having a gym still doesn't make it UFC a martial arts style, it means they own gyms as well as promoting fights and having a clothing line. It's still MMA. It's a good commercial move. SBG have a lot of gyms, that isn't a style either though they may have a distinct style of teaching and coaching.
The article is still erroneous though, karate has always been around, it's not particularly on the rise in the UFC, some fighters use it more than others, every now and again karate ( and other styles) is more noticeable and people jump on the bandwagon and write silly articles.
Restricting the discussion of MMA fighters to only those in the UFC is limiting the discussion considerably by the way. Before the fighters get to the UFC they will have a fight record with other promotions so really by the time they get to the UFC their way of fighting is more or less set, they just rack their training up a few notches.