Revelations Regarding Chi Sao

[wingchun100]

Last Sunday, I don't know what it was. Something just clicked with me when it came to Chi Sao. For the longest time, this is where I have struggled in my training. Does this mean that, after 20 years of studying, I sucked at Wing Chun? If so, what business do I have teaching a class?

The answer: no, I did not suck at applying it...on the STREET. Against people who were able to make it to class more than me...well, that was a different story. However, after last Sunday I feel I reached a turning point. There were 3 major revelations I had, and I wanted to share them.

1) KEEP BOTH HANDS "ALIVE." I have a tendency to put only one hand to use at a time. For example, I will strike with one, but then I get hit because I didn't trap with the other. Sifu London tells me the dummy form will help me break this bad habit. In the meantime, I can try developing it via Chi Sao as well, of course!

2) LEARN TO RECEIVE AND SEND OFF ENERGY: When someone comes in at me, I have a bad habit of stepping back. My training partner Dave calls it "leaping out of the pocket." The goal should be to stay IN the pocket, receive that energy, and disperse it.

3) THE TWO GOALS ARE TO EITHER DROP OR UPROOT: For me, this was the biggest revelation of them all, so it might take a few paragraphs to explain. Even then, it might be something that is better done visually, but I have no partner to demonstrate it at the moment.

Uprooting is a concept that some of you may already understand. If you uproot someone and destroy their balance (or, in a more Wing Chun way of saying it, their centerline), then they can get no power to any of their blows. They're too buys struggling to plant their roots again. That is a simple one to grasp.

Now as for dropping them, the way my Sifu explained it is you are bringing their arms down when you trap them. This gives the opponent the feeling of their arms being heavy; it's like they can't even lift them to defend themselves. However, in order to create that feeling, you have to trap (again, in Sifu's words) "with conviction."

That has been a struggle for me in ALL areas of life: doing things with conviction, which I also translate to mean "with CONFIDENCE." Ah, the dreaded C word...something which I have been severely lacking!

However, as I said, something just clicked last Sunday. I can't explain it. All I know is, I shared these thoughts with Sifu London and he said to me, "Now you have a good observation to work with. All you have to do is apply it."

And I will.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Last Sunday, I don't know what it was. Something just clicked with me when it came to Chi Sao. For the longest time, this is where I have struggled in my training. Does this mean that, after 20 years of studying, I sucked at Wing Chun? If so, what business do I have teaching a class?

The answer: no, I did not suck at applying it...on the STREET. Against people who were able to make it to class more than me...well, that was a different story. However, after last Sunday I feel I reached a turning point. There were 3 major revelations I had, and I wanted to share them.

1) KEEP BOTH HANDS "ALIVE." I have a tendency to put only one hand to use at a time. For example, I will strike with one, but then I get hit because I didn't trap with the other. Sifu London tells me the dummy form will help me break this bad habit. In the meantime, I can try developing it via Chi Sao as well, of course!

2) LEARN TO RECEIVE AND SEND OFF ENERGY: When someone comes in at me, I have a bad habit of stepping back. My training partner Dave calls it "leaping out of the pocket." The goal should be to stay IN the pocket, receive that energy, and disperse it.

3) THE TWO GOALS ARE TO EITHER DROP OR UPROOT: For me, this was the biggest revelation of them all, so it might take a few paragraphs to explain. Even then, it might be something that is better done visually, but I have no partner to demonstrate it at the moment.

Uprooting is a concept that some of you may already understand. If you uproot someone and destroy their balance (or, in a more Wing Chun way of saying it, their centerline), then they can get no power to any of their blows. They're too buys struggling to plant their roots again. That is a simple one to grasp.

Now as for dropping them, the way my Sifu explained it is you are bringing their arms down when you trap them. This gives the opponent the feeling of their arms being heavy; it's like they can't even lift them to defend themselves. However, in order to create that feeling, you have to trap (again, in Sifu's words) "with conviction."

That has been a struggle for me in ALL areas of life: doing this with conviction, which I also translate to mean "with CONFIDENCE." Ah, the dreaded C word...something which I have been severely lacking!

However, as I said, something just clicked last Sunday. I can't explain it. All I know is, I shared these thoughts with Sifu London and he said to me, "Now you have a good observation to work with. All you have to do is apply it."

And I will.

Those "lightbulb moments" happen sometimes. They are among my favorite and most frustrating experiences. Often, when I have them, I think, "Why the hell didn't I see that 10 years ago??"

I remember someone telling this story of Richard Bowe (head of the NGAA, who brought NGA to the US): "I was working on one of the 50 Classical Techniques - one I'd been struggilng with lately - and things suddenly fell into place. I told Mr. Bowe, 'I think I just finally figured that one out!' Mr. Bowe replied, 'One down, 49 to go.'"

 

[wingchun100]

Those "lightbulb moments" happen sometimes. They are among my favorite and most frustrating experiences. Often, when I have them, I think, "Why the hell didn't I see that 10 years ago??"

I remember someone telling this story of Richard Bowe (head of the NGAA, who brought NGA to the US): "I was working on one of the 50 Classical Techniques - one I'd been struggilng with lately - and things suddenly fell into place. I told Mr. Bowe, 'I think I just finally figured that one out!' Mr. Bowe replied, 'One down, 49 to go.'"

Yes! I don't know why it never happened before, but now that it has, I feel I can advance in my training, and I can also pass the savings on to any who start to train after me.

 

[wingchun100]

There was also another lightbulb moment, courtesy again of Sifu London, but I will share that in ANOTHER thread because it is not Chi Sao-related.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes! I don't know why it never happened before, but now that it has, I feel I can advance in my training, and I can also pass the savings on to any who start to train after me.

I have lightbulb moments all the time. Sometimes they are small (picked one up observing an Aikido class this week), and occasionally I still have bigger realizations. Every time, they advance my understanding, my technical ability, and how I teach.

 

[wingchun100]

I have lightbulb moments all the time. Sometimes they are small (picked one up observing an Aikido class this week), and occasionally I still have bigger realizations. Every time, they advance my understanding, my technical ability, and how I teach.

The only bad thing about it is that I had this revelation toward the end of Sunday's gathering, so I have to wait another week to apply what I realized!

I really need to find people who can do Chi Sao with me during the week!

 

[geezer]

1) KEEP BOTH HANDS "ALIVE."

This is hugely important for me. In the VT/WT chi-sau I train, we are looking to hit, not to stick or chase hands (in spite of what some others may believe!) ...so both hands are seeking a path to strike.

When our partner counters one attack he will almost invariably draw attention and force away from his other hand creating an opening and can be hit with our other hand . If he realizes this in time and closes the "hole", he often over-corrects weakens his first defense, allowing the initial attack to proceed.

If both hands are equally alive, it's almost like having anti- lock brakes (ABS). In other words, your arms independently detect loss of traction, or slippage and compensate --but, unlike auto brakes, they can compensate by slipping through to hit rather than by restoring traction and sticking! After all, unlike most drivers, we are trying to collide with our opponent!

2) LEARN TO RECEIVE AND SEND OFF ENERGY:

I absolutely agree. Stepping back is rarely necessary or desirable. It's better to deflect or redirect force and maintain forward intention and close range. Absorb, deflect, turn, and dissolve, but don't deliberately move away from your partner/opponent.

3) THE TWO GOALS ARE TO EITHER DROP OR UPROOT:

Actually, for me, the goal is to hit without being hit yourself. Dropping and uprooting would be a means to this end.

"Now you have a good observation to work with. All you have to do is apply it."

Yep. And this is the hard part. The light goes on ...and then in the next class my body is back in the dark! Or so it seems. The revelation is important, then comes the endless practice to make it happen consistently. That's my goal anyway. Good luck in your training!

 

[wingchun100]

Actually, for me, the goal is to hit without being hit yourself. Dropping and uprooting would be a means to this end.

Let me rephrase that last revelation then: the goal is to hit by using the methods of either uprooting or dropping.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses, and good luck in your training as well.

Hmm...maybe I should start recording some Chi Sao sessions, so I can show the improvement over time as I start getting my body to cooperate with me and apply these things to reality.

 

[DanT]

Yeah I had a "lightbulb" moment yesterday:
-usually when I see an opening I'll execute a technique with little power because I can still get through due to great timing, but I realized that if I add power to great timing the technique becomes almost unstoppable. Plus I get to work on my power. No more light floppy chi Sao for me!

 

[wingchun100]

Yeah I had a "lightbulb" moment yesterday:
-usually when I see an opening I'll execute a technique with little power because I can still get through due to great timing, but I realized that if I add power to great timing the technique becomes almost unstoppable. Plus I get to work on my power. No more light floppy chi Sao for me!

This was part of my problem too, although it was a little different: I was being timid about my techniques because I wasn't sure of myself at all during Chi Sao. I mean, I knew what the purpose of that training tool is, but I felt like I wasn't grasping it or executing it right. Now with these discoveries, I think I am going to be much more confident in how I approach it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This was part of my problem too, although it was a little different: I was being timid about my techniques because I wasn't sure of myself at all during Chi Sao. I mean, I knew what the purpose of that training tool is, but I felt like I wasn't grasping it or executing it right. Now with these discoveries, I think I am going to be much more confident in how I approach it.

I had that problem with my blocks while blending. It took two instances to cure it. First, when I was attending a Black Sword Aikido seminar, I let my arms get lazy with a jo block, and the instructor smacked me on the head with my own jo. Second, at a demonstration, I was defending a knife attack (and moving quite well), but let the block go too soft when absorbing the attack. The training knife got to my neck, and I heard someone in the audience say, "Oh, he's dead."

 

[Danny T]

3) THE TWO GOALS ARE TO EITHER DROP OR UPROOT: For me, this was the biggest revelation of them all, so it might take a few paragraphs to explain. Even then, it might be something that is better done visually, but I have no partner to demonstrate it at the moment.

Uprooting is a concept that some of you may already understand. If you uproot someone and destroy their balance (or, in a more Wing Chun way of saying it, their centerline), then they can get no power to any of their blows. They're too buys struggling to plant their roots again. That is a simple one to grasp.

Now as for dropping them, the way my Sifu explained it is you are bringing their arms down when you trap them. This gives the opponent the feeling of their arms being heavy; it's like they can't even lift them to defend themselves. However, in order to create that feeling, you have to trap (again, in Sifu's words) "with conviction."

That has been a struggle for me in ALL areas of life: doing things with conviction, which I also translate to mean "with CONFIDENCE." Ah, the dreaded C word...something which I have been severely lacking!

However, as I said, something just clicked last Sunday. I can't explain it. All I know is, I shared these thoughts with Sifu London and he said to me, "Now you have a good observation to work with. All you have to do is apply it."

And I will.

Whatever it takes to make the connection is good.


I like the term ‘Sink’.

My understanding is to make their bridge sink by the use of the immovable elbow as they either drive forward or as we drive forward. It isn’t so much that we trap but through proper structure of the body and elbow positioning as we strike ‘if’ the opponent’s arms create a barrier the trap happens; otherwise we are hitting…with conviction. However, we are not dedicated to a particular hit.

 

[Callen]

Last Sunday, I don't know what it was. Something just clicked with me when it came to Chi Sao. For the longest time, this is where I have struggled in my training. Does this mean that, after 20 years of studying, I sucked at Wing Chun? If so, what business do I have teaching a class?

Good for you! Understanding Wing Chun is truly a personal journey. IMO, it's important to recognize and overcome the many plateaus along the way. They help us grow. It's a sign that you're learning more about yourself and how the system can work for you.

As it is with all of us, no matter how many years of being a student or teacher... there's always more to learn.