Rethinking 9/11

[grumpywolfman]

Unpatriotic? Conspiracist?

With more than 2000+ architects and engineers supporting efforts for the public to know the truth, 40% of Americans would like to see a new investigation into the attacks of 9/11.


[video=youtube_share;A7tSfwkKaUo]http://youtu.be/A7tSfwkKaUo[/video]

WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:

Rapid onset of collapse
Sounds of explosions
Symmetrical structural failure
Free-fall acceleration through the path of what was greatest resistance
Imploded, collapsing completely, landing almost in its own footprint
Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
Expert corroboration from the top European controlled demolition professional
Foreknowledge of "collapse" by media, NYPD, FDNY
In the aftermath of WTC7's destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendiary devices was discovered:

FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples
Several tons of molten metal reported by numerous highly qualified witnesses
Chemical signature of the incendiary thermite found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples
WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Slow onset with large visible deformations
Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)
Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never collapsed

As seen in this revealing photo, the Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives:

Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration
Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
Extremely rapid onset of destruction
Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes
Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally
Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
1200-foot-diameter debris field: no "pancaked" floors found
Isolated explosive ejections 20–40 stories below demolition front
Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples
Evidence of explosives found in dust samples

The three high-rises exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Slow onset with large visible deformations
Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer-lasting fires have never collapsed

 

[Tgace]

Oh brother....this again?

 

[harlan]

I must have missed the opinion survey phone call...dang.

I say: send big checks to the survivor's kids, build a park and some new real estate, and move on.

Life is for the living, and my taxes are already too high.

 

[Big Don]

Oh brother....this again?

you misspelled not this feces again...
19 Muslim men hijacked 4 planes on Tuesday September 11th 2001, they flew two into the towers, one into the Pentagon and one crashed in PA. To pretend the fact that they WERE Muslims is unimportant is silly, that fact was important to the 19 hijacking scumbags.To blame the JOOOS, the Illuminati or the friggin Shriners is just ********** stupid.

 

[Makalakumu]

Unpatriotic? Conspiracist? With more than 2000+ architects and engineers supporting efforts for the public to know the truth, 40% of Americans would like to see a new investigation into the attacks of 9/11.

9/11 is Patriot's Day, by the way. How dare you ask some questions, Patriots don't do that in the New Amerika.

 

[Big Don]

A pretty big percentage of people believe Elvis is alive, that doesn't mean they should be taken seriously.

 

[Tgace]

Brains are falling out....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[elder999]

It pains me to have to address this-correct this-yet again, and on this day of all days, but I just can't bear it.

Unpatriotic? WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:

No. No, it didn't.

Rapid onset of collapse

From the very good Merriam-Webster English Language Technical Manual:

to break apart and fall down suddenly : to fall
to fall or shrink together abruptly and completely : fall into a jumbled or flattened mass through the force of external pressure <a blood vessel that collapsed>
2
: to break down completely : disintegrate <his case had collapsed in a mass of legal wreckage &#8212; Erle Stanley Gardner>

3
: to cave or fall in or give way <the bridge collapsed

So, strike one: English language usage. Collapses are, by definition, sudden.

Sounds of explosions

Stand outside a decent structural fire. Know what you'll hear?

Explosions. Implosions, too. And things that sound like them when they get hot enough to simply crack, like wood.

TV monitors, windows, refrigerators, microwave ovens, canned food-all explode or implode.

Symmetrical structural failure

While a symmetrical structural failure is atypical, it is not unheard of, nor impossible.

Free-fall acceleration through the path of what was greatest resistance

OR through the path of what was most fire damaged.

Imploded, collapsing completely, landing almost in its own footprint

Again, atypical, but not unheard of.

Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds

Dust....ya know.....dust? :lfao:

Expert corroboration from the top European controlled demolition professional

]

Kinda like asking a painter "Is this paint blue?" only let's ask a demolition professional "Did this building fall?"

Foreknowledge of "collapse" by media, NYPD, FDNY

Where?

In the aftermath of WTC7's destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendiary devices was discovered:

No. No, there wasn't.

FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples

"Rapid oxidation" is called......fire. All "melting" in steel is "intergranular." Structural steel melts at a variety of temperatures, depending upon carbon content, but the highest is about 2900 F, a temperature well below the 3500 F that can be achieved near the ceiling in a fully involved structural fire with ordinary combustibles for fuel (that's arson investigator speak, something I used to do, for a "house fire.")

The numerous highly qualified witnesses

Yeah, there's a PhD. physicist from LANL named Stan Friedman who swears the government is converting alien tech in an underground base beneath Area 51. I've been to Area 51-as in, in it-and you know what's there?

Nothing. :lfao:

Chemical signature of the incendiary thermite found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples

Uhh..."thermite" is composed of iron oxide, aluminum and an ignition source. "Iron oxide" is rust. You have a fire, with all the components of thermite present, and voila-instant idiocy.

I could go on, but the hot-tub is calling.

At long last, man, have you no decency? It's one thing to glurge with pseudo-scientific Biblical babble-that, at least, is entertaining. This is like ripping off a scab, and pouring salt into it, with a nice pungent vinegar of stupidity added to the mix. Rude beyond any extreme.

"Rethinking 9/11" No. Not "thinking" at all.

Good night.

 

[elder999]

9/11 is Patriot's Day, by the way. How dare you ask some questions, Patriots don't do that in the New Amerika.

ANd this.

"Patriot's Day" is extremely insulting. Those 340 firemen didn't go into those buildings and die because they were "patriots," or even because they were good Americans.

They did what they did because they were human beings-just as human beings everywhere always have.

In my house, 9/11 is "Preparedness Day." The day we sharpen our knives, clean our guns, inventory our medical supplies, ammo, emergency food and water-so that "never again" means just that.

 

[Makalakumu]

ANd this.

"Patriot's Day" is extremely insulting. Those 340 firemen didn't go into those buildings and die because they were "patriots," or even because they were good Americans.

They did what they did because they were human beings-just as human beings everywhere always have.

In my house, 9/11 is "Preparedness Day." The day we sharpen our knives, clean our guns, inventory our medical supplies, ammo, emergency food and water-so that "never again" means just that.

Sorry to say, Elder, but I didn't make this up.

http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/patriot-day

I like the way you spin this day. Seems like a good way to handle it.

In regards to this whole conspiracy theory, I think I'm just too ignorant to make any decisions about what really happened. I haven't seen any evidence. I haven't seen jack squat except for whatever ******** I can dig up on the internet. I realize this probably applies to most of my posts in this forum. LOL!

That said, it's an inside job. Truth out homies.

 

[arnisador]

Sheesh.

 

[Cirdan]

We all know the alien jew robot illuminati party are responsible already. Move on.

 

[elder999]

Sorry to say, Elder, but I didn't make this up.

http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/patriot-day

I know you didn't. It's just silly, is all.

Besides, didn't we already have a Patiot's Day? I thought we did/. :

Patriot's Day (or Patriots' Day) commemorates the battles of Lexington and Concord, which were fought near Boston in 1775. Patriot's Day is annually held on the third Monday of April. It should not be confused with Patriot Day, held on September 11 to mark the anniversary of terrorist attacks in the USA in 2001.

I like the way you spin this day. Seems like a good way to handle it.

Thank the Unholy, Don Roley for that one.....:lol:

 

[grumpywolfman]

Side by side comparison of an acknowledged controlled demolition and WTC7:

[video=youtube_share;_x4Jq9FTli8]http://youtu.be/_x4Jq9FTli8[/video]

 

[harlan]

And current news...

 

[elder999]

At the end of the day, I&#8217;ve said most of this elsewhere. For the record, though-I was six years old, and lived in Manhattan when they started building the World Trade Center-it was, at that time, just a hole in the ground-we moved out of the city when I was 8, and it was completed later, but it was the destination for more than a few school field trips, as well as a few others. I proposed to my kids&#8217; mom at Windows on the World, the restaurant at the top floor of the North Tower. Later, when I worked in the training department at Indian Pt., the World Trade Center was bombed-subsequent to that, because the agency that ran Indian Pt. #3 was a state agency, and because we had an emergency operations center, we wound up assisting the City of New York in setting up their emergency operations center, at #7 WTC. During that process, I met a lot of interesting people-most of whom died in that building on 9/11-I&#8217;ve posted about Rick Rescorla before-we met simply because I kept harping about an evacuation procedure, and someone said &#8220;There&#8217;s this guy you should meet; you sound just like him.&#8221; I went to the opera with him once-my usual opera companion was unable to go, I was stuck with an extra ticket for really good seats, and remembered him-a remarkable man, among many very interesting people that I got to meet during that process, most of whom, as I said, are dead-along with two firemen, and a couple of classmates&#8230;&#8230;.so, when I say that this whole &#8220;inside job&#8221; truther story is extremely offensive to me, well, it&#8217;s because it&#8217;s extremely offensive to me.


Why do people do this? As someone whose career (more on that in a moment) has made me privy to more than a few secrets-things I&#8217;d love to post about, but often can offer no more than, &#8220;I have nothing to say about that&#8221;- I can tell you that the tendency to want secret knowledge-and to share it-runs deeply in humanity. From sacred geometry, to the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, the Holy Grail and the Knights Templar, UFOs, ancient astronauts and Bigfoot-we all want to believe that we know &#8220;the truth&#8221; and that others would be far less ignorant if only they listened to us.


The problem is, though, that we often listen to the wrong people-much like those who argue against global warming-people who don&#8217;t know what the hell they&#8217;re talking about. I&#8217;ve posted about my career once or twice, but, for Mr. Grumpywolfman, and anyone who thinks I&#8217;ve made my comments out of ignorance or lack of knowledge, I&#8217;ll reiterate: I hold degrees in religious studies, nuclear and mechanical engineering, a master&#8217;s in nuclear engineering, and a PhD. in applied physics. Additionally, I&#8217;ve been a volunteer firemen, an arson investigator, an EMT, a certified Hazmat technician, and a federally certified bomb tech. My career has taken me from Indian Pt. to Los Alamos National Lab, and all over the world. I also make knives, and have taken several college and post-grad classes in metallurgy.


I&#8217;ve blown things up, for work. Lots of things. I&#8217;ve also puzzled out-as part of my job-ways that people could blow things up-or poison them, etc., etc., etc. If you&#8217;re in law enforcement or emergency medicine, chances are that some of your training material on these subjects was developed by me.


So I don&#8217;t make my comments in some sort of vacuum-they come from years of study and experience, and not in something as narrow as a single field. I&#8217;m damn tired of refuting this crap-others have done so and continued to do so, and the only ignorance is that displayed by comments like these:

WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Slow onset with large visible deformations
Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)
Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never collapsed
Evidence of explosives found in dust samples

The three high-rises exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

Slow onset with large visible deformations
Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer-lasting fires have never collapsed

There were many forces at work besides fire-especially in the case of WTC #7, which suffered severe structural damage from the falling towers:



I mean, Popular Mechanics debunked all of this stuff a long time a go, and thoroughly enough-why is that so hard to accept? I could refute each point made in depth-pointing out where they are completely ignorant and lacking in technical knowledge (melting is intergranular) or simply misguided (fire alone did not make any of those buildings fall-gravity, I think, had a lot to do with it...:lol: )

I understand, though, that there are those of you who'd simply rather believe that the Bildeberg/Illuminati/Rothschild/One World Order conspiracy was responsible for engineering the complex process that is a controlled demolition-in a fully occupied building that was under increasaed 24 hr. surveillance after the 1993 bombing. They did this by building the charges into the original construction, over 40 years ago, knowing there was a time that those buildings would come to symbolize for our Middle Eastern enemies, all they would come to hate about us, forty years later.

At the end of the day, there was a conspiracy-that of 19 men who hijacked planes and flew them into the twin towers and the Pentagon. Period. Full stop.

 

[aedrasteia]

Why do people do this? As someone whose career (more on that in a moment) has made me privy to more than a few secrets-things I’d love to post about, but often can offer no more than, “I have nothing to say about that”- I can tell you that the tendency to want secret knowledge-and to share it-runs deeply in humanity. From sacred geometry, to the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, the Holy Grail and the Knights Templar, UFOs, ancient astronauts and Bigfoot-we all want to believe that we know “the truth” and that others would be far less ignorant if only they listened to us.

This. thank you Elder.

This is the tendency I watch for in others and in myself.
We all need some degree of reassurance (and comfort) in order to live every day.
And when that need is enormous and no source for its fullfilment is present, so many many people will
invent, accomodate, give allegiance to an explanation/theory which serves that (hidden) need.
The most coherent, truthful explanation may be factually accurate, but it does not
and cannot speak to emotional need. And to admit that emotional need, in this world, is to face the
ridicule that is unendurable.

What people find shameful is simply to be in need, to be vulnerable. That is unacceptable
in this belligerent, combative, insanely autonomous, mechanistic, toxic society. Not the explanations.
No matter what they are.

so sorry for the loss of those people you knew.
with respect,

 

[grumpywolfman]

The late Dr. Robert Bowman (Lt. Col.) who recently passed away while battling cancer. Dr. Robert Bowman was one of the first prominent voices to take a stand for 9/11 Truth. Dr. Bowman earned his PhD in aeronautics and nuclear engineering at Caltech. He retired as a lieutenant colonel after 22 years in the Air Force, which included 101 missions as a fighter pilot in Vietnam. While he is best known for his role as Director of Advanced Space Programs for the Air Force during the Ford and Carter Administrations, he was also a leading critic of the &#8220;Star Wars&#8221; direction of the program during the Reagan Administration.

Dr. Bowman was also one of the early signers of the AE911Truth petition and was one of 43 experts interviewed in Experts Speak Out, stating, "When I saw the Twin Towers fall down, I knew this could not happen. Those airplanes and those fires could not cause the buildings to come down the way they did.&#8221;

[video=youtube_share;x_4X8OVL5vo]http://youtu.be/x_4X8OVL5vo[/video]

More than 2,000 architects and engineers have now signed the AE911 Truth petition to Congress calling for a new, independent investigation into the World Trade Center attacks on 9/11.

 

[elder999]

Dr. Bowman was also one of the early signers of the AE911Truth petition and was one of 43 experts interviewed in Experts Speak Out, stating, "When I saw the Twin Towers fall down, I knew this could not happen. Those airplanes and those fires could not cause the buildings to come down the way they did.”

And a perfect example of those "wrong people" to listen to, as he is neither a structural engineer, nor an expert on demolition.

Those buildings were special-they were made to come down the way they did. That facade was structural-more like an exoskeleton-and the collapse of the buildings was inevitable with the right sorts of stress-while Minoru Yamasaki anticipated plane crashes in his design, he did not account for larger, faster aircraft like those used-nor did he design for the idea of their being deliberately flown into the building.

I mean-I've got youtube video as well:

 

[grumpywolfman]

And a perfect example of those "wrong people" to listen to, as he is neither a structural engineer, nor an expert on demolition.

Those buildings were special-they were made to come down the way they did. That facade was structural-more like an exoskeleton-and the collapse of the buildings was inevitable with the right sorts of stress-while Minoru Yamasaki anticipated plane crashes in his design, he did not account for larger, faster aircraft like those used-nor did he design for the idea of their being deliberately flown into the building.

I mean-I've got youtube video as well:

Here is a direct link to the people who have signed the petition. Please feel free to contact one of the several structural engineers listed ~ PETITION