Regular Sparring Sessions is a Go

[Transk53]

Self defense that only incorporates the all in attack?

I look at it that way. I always expect the smother move. Especially from big guys as their means of attack. For me that is all in, and pretty much the riposte I would expect.

 

[drop bear]

I look at it that way. I always expect the smother move. Especially from big guys as their means of attack. For me that is all in, and pretty much the riposte I would expect.

 

[Transk53]

That would be an exception for me. Most don't do that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Self defense that only incorporates the all in attack?

At no point did I say I only incorporate that.

 

[Juany118]

Which is fine. But it is still you suggesting that the violent encounters you experience follow a specific script.

Ant that was explained by you as due to your nature as a police officer.

That is not my experience. My experience is that violence can be unpredictable in nature.

And violent assaults of any kind can't be dismissed because people do the same in middle school. That is silly. People die from violent assaults.

A few things.

When I speak of it from an officer perspective it is not just from the description of encounters of myself or fellow officers but from the crimes I have actually investigated.

Second, as for a script there is a general one on the larger scale, just like there is in life in general. Psychology is what it is and there is a psychology to violence. Because of this, depending on the circumstances surrounding an incident, you will have a lot of consistency in various factors of an encounter. If this wasn't the case Forensic Behavioral Analysis wouldn't be a thing. Now this doesn't mean you can predict the robbery suspect will have a knife, gun etc. It doesn't mean you can predict exactly when and where they will strike. But you can actually make a flow chart of sorts in a general sense. A mind the to following...

Robber approaches victim. Does Robber know victim? If not does victim give in immediately and give up wallet? If yes robber flees with booty. If no robber goes all in to get booty.

Now what results from "the all" in is indeed unpredictable. One person's definition of all in (if the victim doesn't get the upper hand) may be "they are stunned, take wallet and leave", where as another may be so violent they just stomp the victim into the pavement.

Also note I am talking about an out of the gate robbery. There are also robberies that I think of as crimes of opportunity which as a bouncer I am sure you have dealt with. Two people engage in a "bar fight", maybe in the parking lot. When the fight is over the "winner" decided to take the "losers" wallet, watch, whatever. Thing is that wasn't a robbery out of the gate, it was a fight between two people out of the gate that turned into a robbery at the end. The motive behind the violence informs the nature of the violence.

 

[Juany118]

At no point did I say I only incorporate that.

Yeah, I don't think anybody did. You train for different types of encounters. An out of the gate robbery or sexual assault will have a different kind of violence behind it than someone looking to regain pride in a bar over an imagined slight after too much beer and they have to addressed differently in a civilian self defense context.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, I don't think anybody did. You train for different types of encounters. An out of the gate robbery or sexual assault will have a different kind of violence behind it than someone looking to regain pride in a bar over an imagined slight after too much beer and they have to addressed differently in a civilian self defense context.

An most of those (not all, but the extreme majority) will have far less self-control than a skilled fighter has during sparring.

 

[Juany118]

An most of those (not all, but the extreme majority) will have far less self-control than a skilled fighter has during sparring.

Definitely on the last bit. Often in sparring you are going full speed using all your skill, but maybe only putting 50-75% force behind the techniques. You don't want to "break" classmates.

 

[drop bear]

At no point did I say I only incorporate that.

"This is one of those cases where what's needed for competition is different than the field, IMO. The guys Juany is dealing with probably aren't that patient, waiting for a prime opening. Probably not that well-trained or controlled, either."

Now this whole conversation is based on the idea that juanny does not need to have a depth of fighting ability to handle more than one style of attack. That is not self defence but police work.

you certainly havent mentioned you have disagreed with that idea. And that reads like you are supporting it.

You haven't mentioned what you incorporate. instead trying to make a street sport distinction that isnt there.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, I don't think anybody did. You train for different types of encounters. An out of the gate robbery or sexual assault will have a different kind of violence behind it than someone looking to regain pride in a bar over an imagined slight after too much beer and they have to addressed differently in a civilian self defense context.

You addressed it specifically to non civilian use of force.


.
range I tend to "jam" the opponent up because if I am going from striking to "control" at work I find "jamming" up makes it easier to establish control. On the other hand a soft defense, while it creates an opening for for faster counter strike, doesn't permit for as easy a transition for control.

The visiting Master is WC only, and I want to make him happy of course doing what he sees as proper WC. At the same time thinking "will it make things difficult at work since you fight the way your train."

 

[drop bear]

A few things.

When I speak of it from an officer perspective it is not just from the description of encounters of myself or fellow officers but from the crimes I have actually investigated.

Second, as for a script there is a general one on the larger scale, just like there is in life in general. Psychology is what it is and there is a psychology to violence. Because of this, depending on the circumstances surrounding an incident, you will have a lot of consistency in various factors of an encounter. If this wasn't the case Forensic Behavioral Analysis wouldn't be a thing. Now this doesn't mean you can predict the robbery suspect will have a knife, gun etc. It doesn't mean you can predict exactly when and where they will strike. But you can actually make a flow chart of sorts in a general sense. A mind the to following...

Robber approaches victim. Does Robber know victim? If not does victim give in immediately and give up wallet? If yes robber flees with booty. If no robber goes all in to get booty.

Now what results from "the all" in is indeed unpredictable. One person's definition of all in (if the victim doesn't get the upper hand) may be "they are stunned, take wallet and leave", where as another may be so violent they just stomp the victim into the pavement.

Also note I am talking about an out of the gate robbery. There are also robberies that I think of as crimes of opportunity which as a bouncer I am sure you have dealt with. Two people engage in a "bar fight", maybe in the parking lot. When the fight is over the "winner" decided to take the "losers" wallet, watch, whatever. Thing is that wasn't a robbery out of the gate, it was a fight between two people out of the gate that turned into a robbery at the end. The motive behind the violence informs the nature of the violence.

You are cherry picking. There is more to self defence than bar fights and a specific mugging.

If you train for self defence rather than police work. You should train to address a range of threats. If you wanted to defend yourself say when not a police officer. Same idea applies.

 

[drop bear]

An most of those (not all, but the extreme majority) will have far less self-control than a skilled fighter has during sparring.

Why does that make a difference?

Your training should be able to incorporate skilled and unskilled fighters.

It would be silly to be taken apart by a guy because he didn't know how to fight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"This is one of those cases where what's needed for competition is different than the field, IMO. The guys Juany is dealing with probably aren't that patient, waiting for a prime opening. Probably not that well-trained or controlled, either."

Now this whole conversation is based on the idea that juanny does not need to have a depth of fighting ability to handle more than one style of attack. That is not self defence but police work.

you certainly havent mentioned you have disagreed with that idea. And that reads like you are supporting it.

You haven't mentioned what you incorporate. instead trying to make a street sport distinction that isnt there.

And nothing in my statement claims that anyone should ONLY prepare for "all-in". I made a statement about people involved in those situations are typically not well controlled. That's not "one style of attack", but a common characteristic of those attacks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why does that make a difference?

Your training should be able to incorporate skilled and unskilled fighters.

It would be silly to be taken apart by a guy because he didn't know how to fight.

Sigh.

We've discussed this before. I'm not dragging the thread back through it.

 

[drop bear]

Sigh.

We've discussed this before. I'm not dragging the thread back through it.

Ok. new tact.

Why do you encourage people to be mediocre?

 

[drop bear]

And nothing in my statement claims that anyone should ONLY prepare for "all-in". I made a statement about people involved in those situations are typically not well controlled. That's not "one style of attack", but a common characteristic of those attacks.

You are making the statement that you will only need to train for one style of attack in the field. Because people will probably attack in a certain manner.

see in response to me saying that you need to train for different attacks

Drop bear The issue you get. And you get it in boxing as well. If you chase a guy to desperately close distance. You can get your face smashed into hamburger. So you need alternate strategies so that when you do chase and jam he is not waiting for it.

This guy exploited the hell out of that particular problem.

you responded with this.

Gpseymor. This is one of those cases where what's needed for competition is different than the field, IMO. The guys Juany is dealing with probably aren't that patient, waiting for a prime opening. Probably not that well-trained or controlled, either.

If you are making a different staement please clarify.

 

[Transk53]

Sigh.

We've discussed this before. I'm not dragging the thread back through it.

I agree with Bear. It would be very embarrassing to be taken apart by an amateur.

 

[Transk53]

Ok. new tact.

Why do you encourage people to be mediocre?

Fight or flight, most choose the latter irrespective of training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. new tact.

Why do you encourage people to be mediocre?

Why do you insist I do? You have made it quite clear in the last month that you REALLY don't like what you think it is that I do. You've made it equally clear that you REALLY don't know what I do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree with Bear. It would be very embarrassing to be taken apart by an amateur.

And What have I said that implies I think otherwise?