Realistic Training !!

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I'm know they do, I have trained with them many many times, but that is just one of the many arts they do. That is MMA. Mixed Martial Arts

Oh, so nine different martial arts aren't enough?

Based on what you've written here, I don't think you know what you need in terms of instructon, I do however think you know what you want. Probably because deep down, you're bored. How right am I on a scale?

 

[Seattletcj]

I As I see it, the thing that some people are doing here is trying to talk "Aliveness" but they are only wanting to address the punch in a very static way, because they lack the understanding.

People can justify anything, if they try hard enough. And people do. Especially when that something is attached to that persons identity in one way or another IMO. Not talking about you specifically Bigshadow.
Can someone also justfiy falling forward on your lead leg when your kick misses its target? Probably.

I guess because I "lack the understanding" I cant see the overwhelming benefit of punching, and leaving my arm outstretched. Is it really quantum physics ?
I did find an example of what you are talking about though. It starts at 1:00 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=malY0Mukm-Y&mode=related&search=

The arm is not out there disconnected and without purpose. Our modern soldiers do the same thing, watch how they punch or shove someone back during CQ control while holding their weapon.

I have no idea what CQ control is. Can you provide some kind of video, or link or discription of what this is?

In a dynamic environment, it may not stay there long, furthermore it may not happen at all, or at least not look like it does in a static form, but I would wager it will encompass the principles involved.

If you are participating in dynamic environments and are using this tactic successfully and consistantly I'd be interested in hearing about that.
I dont get how , if it did not happen at all (leaving your punching arm outstretched) it would still encompass the principals involved (in leaving your punching arm outstretched).

 

[Ronnin]

One thing I was trying to get at in my post, albeit subtly, was the truth that no one should listen to a teacher who teaches you what to do in situations they have never experienced. It is very silly! Maybe akin to someone who plays banjo telling you how to play violin in an orchestra and thinking he knows because he plays a string instrument. It doesn’t wash.

The only way you will know how you will do against a non-X-kan martial artist is to get in there with one. Or find a teacher who has. How to use the art in war can only be taught by someone who has been in war, how to use the art for personal protection must be taught by someone in the field, Interested in how to use it in police work? Find cops who have used it and learn from them.

Many people in all martial arts fall into theory and conceptual traps, they “prove” these out with dead ukes who move as they are told and never fight back. In these situations you can come up with elaborate scenarios all of which “work” in that environment.

If you look at our kata you will see they are simple and fast and no fuss or muss. The more fancy you get the further away from reality you get. Those with “eyes to see” can see the people lost in the fantasy world of their own minds. Be careful who you trust with your training, rank, where they live, what org they are in all means nothing if they cannot back up with action what they say.

Martial arts are serious business, caveat emptor…

Mr. Ray I applaud you for your wisdom. It's a breath of fresh air. And I agree with what you say, you put it in better words than I.

 

[Bigshadow]

I guess because I "lack the understanding" I cant see the overwhelming benefit of punching, and leaving my arm outstretched. Is it really quantum physics ?
I did find an example of what you are talking about though. Its at 1:00 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=malY0Mukm-Y&mode=related&search=

I don't know anything about those guys, so I am not going to critique them, but I will point out a couple of things. First, he was instructing. Therefore, they were doing things in a SLLOOOOOOWWWWW manner. You mean to tell me that at the terminus of your punch, if someone took a picture it wouldn't be extended? That must be quantum physics?

I have no idea what CQ control is. Can you provide some kind of video, or link or discription of what this is?

I was thinking of when you see soldiers controlling an agressor's distance. I don't know the proper name for it.

If you are participating in dynamic environments and are using this tactic successfully and consistantly I'd be interested in hearing about that.

Just go to a good Bujinkan dojo, then you don't have to hear about it, more importantly you can feel it.

I think you and others are taking a slow training movement way out of context.

 

[Seattletcj]

I don't know anything about those guys, so I am not going to critique them, but I will point out a couple of things. First, he was instructing. Therefore, they were doing things in a SLLOOOOOOWWWWW manner. You mean to tell me that at the terminus of your punch, if someone took a picture it wouldn't be extended? That must be quantum physics?

Dude, you lost me. Your point was about using the extended punching arm for additional attacks afterwards, right? That was at 1:00 in the video. Are we on the same page?

I think you and others are taking a slow training movement way out of context.

Maybe so. I have no idea what the context is anymore. LOL
When did speed enter the equation?

:drink2tha

 

[Ronnin]

Oh, so nine different martial arts aren't enough?

Based on what you've written here, I don't think you know what you need in terms of instructon, I do however think you know what you want. Probably because deep down, you're bored. How right am I on a scale?

Yeah well, you know the difference between MMA and the 9 schools. You know what I'm talking about.

 

[Ronnin]

Future use.
CQ= Close Quarter
CQB= Close Quarter Battle

 

[Don Roley]

I am stating my concern and what I have noticed from my dojo, and was wondering if others had the same problem.

No, in your first post you said we did things in The Bujinkan for tradition's sake. I corrected you and now you are acting rather peevish and like a troll. Your comment of, "And there's no need for me to talk about this stuff in public." sounds a lot like some of the virtual tough guys we have seen on these boards like Bruce Calkins.

If you only showed some proper attitude and admited that you do not know as much about the Bujinkan and why we do certain things, this conversation would have gone much better. As it is, your reputation has gone down the toilet and I am starting to come to the conclusion that someone else stated that you are just here to cause trouble for the Bujinkan.

It is still not too late. Instead of trying to convince yourself and the world that you know something more than you do, you could stop the insults and try to learn. If you admit that there are reasons you do not yet understand for certain things, then you might find yourself noticing them. But if you just continue to try to convince us how much you know while making statements we know are wrong, you will just dig yourself deeper and deeper into a foxhole that you will never get out of.

 

[Ronnin]

No, in your first post you said we did things in The Bujinkan for tradition's sake. I corrected you and now you are acting rather peevish and like a troll. Your comment of, "And there's no need for me to talk about this stuff in public." sounds a lot like some of the virtual tough guys we have seen on these boards like Bruce Calkins.

If you only showed some proper attitude and admited that you do not know as much about the Bujinkan and why we do certain things, this conversation would have gone much better. As it is, your reputation has gone down the toilet and I am starting to come to the conclusion that someone else stated that you are just here to cause trouble for the Bujinkan.

It is still not too late. Instead of trying to convince yourself and the world that you know something more than you do, you could stop the insults and try to learn. If you admit that there are reasons you do not yet understand for certain things, then you might find yourself noticing them. But if you just continue to try to convince us how much you know while making statements we know are wrong, you will just dig yourself deeper and deeper into a foxhole that you will never get out of.

Very good ...... I said "we" our dojo in the Bujinkan, so people didn't think I was any other kan. I don't know what you're doing in japan, but listening is not one of them. I'm also not trying to convince people I know a whole bunch, that's what you are doing. I think there's been a lot of very intelligent ( not from you ) statements made here. A lot to learn from. All you are doing is trying to say I know nothing ......... okay fine, that's why I'm asking, is this not a forum? Again you are why people of other arts view the bujinkan egotistical. You may not, but I respect all martial arts, they all have their place, and there's nothing more annoying then people who sit around, write "rant" threads, talk about how bad and stupid people are, and "try" to show how intelectually superior you are. I'm sure you make Soke proud. I'm doing what he says, I am exploring. Or wait......do you have an answer for why he says that too, and how I'm wrong ?

 

[Don Roley]

Very good ...... I said "we" our dojo in the Bujinkan, so people didn't think I was any other kan. I don't know what you're doing in japan, but listening is not one of them. I'm also not trying to convince people I know a whole bunch, that's what you are doing. A lot to learn from. All you are doing is trying to say I know nothing ......... okay fine, that's why I'm asking, is this not a forum? Again you are why people of other arts view the bujinkan egotistical. You may not, but I respect all martial arts, they all have their place, and there's nothing more annoying then people who sit around, write "rant" threads, talk about how bad and stupid people are, and "try" to show how intelectually superior you are. I'm sure you make Soke proud. I'm doing what he says, I am exploring. Or wait......do you have an answer for why he says that too, and how I'm wrong ?

Where shall I start?

Very good ...... I said "we" our dojo in the Bujinkan, so people didn't think I was any other kan.

But of course, you gave the impression that the entire Bujinkan did things for traditions sake, that age uchi was not usable against anyting other than an armored opponent, etc. If you had said the training you had seen in your area, things would have been different. You were wrong, and since then you have acted rather badly.

I don't know what you're doing in japan, but listening is not one of them.

Cheap shot that shows your mettle better than I can. I have gotten comments from others about how well I have read you in my reputation box. You may note that you have turned into a red dot since starting this thread.

I'm also not trying to convince people I know a whole bunch, that's what you are doing.

Oh, so how do we know that you were a ranger if you are not trying to convince people you know a lot? As for me, after over a decade training in Japan, I seem to have aquired the idea that I know more about what the Bujinkan is about than a guy who has studied for only a couple of years behind the Orange Curtain.

I think there's been a lot of very intelligent ( not from you ) statements made here.

Nice insult. But you may notice that my rep points have visibly risen since I started posting in this thread while yours have dropped like a prom dress at midnight.

All you are doing is trying to say I know nothing ......... okay fine, that's why I'm asking, is this not a forum?

I fail to see how saying that age uchi can't be done in modern times qualifies as anything as a misinformed statement and not a question. And your comments about your ranger training fly in the face of your stance that you are saying you don't know anything. You certainly do not know much of anything about the Bujinkan or the reasons for certain aspects of it, but you have yet to state that or take that attitude.

Again you are why people of other arts view the bujinkan egotistical.

Another cheap shot. I tell you are wrong, your ego drives you to say you are right and that I am acting out of ego. In other words, you are projecting your own vices onto others.

You may not, but I respect all martial arts, they all have their place, and there's nothing more annoying then people who sit around, write "rant" threads, talk about how bad and stupid people are, and "try" to show how intelectually superior you are

Do you realize that people think this about you? Oh, and you mis-spelled "intelectually".

I'm sure you make Soke proud.

Yet another cheap shot.

I'm doing what he says, I am exploring. Or wait......do you have an answer for why he says that too, and how I'm wrong ?

Oh, but you see that you are the one that is stating that he is certain what he is doing is what Hatsumi wants.

Have you ever even been in the same room as him? I dare say no. So your saying that you are the one doing what he wants us to do kind of shows the very fundemental problem you face.

First of all, you need to admit you have an ego problem. To say to someone who lives in Japan that you are more knowledgeable about what Hatsumi wants without ever meeting the man tells the worlds loads about how you think. The fact that you made a big post about how you were not going to respond to any more posts to me, tried to intimidate me into not responding and got some insults in and then went back on your word and posted again shows us all that you are the type that tries to manipulate others and will do anything to attack them and promote your image in the eyes of others. You should never have said you were not going to respond to me again or responded after that. Now the world can see what you are.

Do you want to go through life like that? I really do not care if you stay in the Bujinkan. In fact, many people here have stated that they would prefer you leave, if you even really are a member. But when you make statements about the Bujinkan that are not true, it is kind of a duty that the rest of us correct you in public so that your disorted view of things does not gain traction.

You can still be saved. But you first have to stop thinking that you know abotu things you do not. The first step of wisdom is saying that you do not know. And you can't just use it as a mantra, you have to believe it and act like you know you do not know all the answers. Otherwise you will look on the world through your own prejudices and tune out all the lessons life gives us.

 

[bydand]

Good Posts Don!

Ronnin, you might find your reputation dropping even more, I know I dinging you again for your stooping to a personal level. So far you have shown your true colors and I am even more convinced you are on a personal vendetta against the Bujinkan. There will be yet another on my ignore list, jeeze 2 in the same week after going almost a year without using it. So far you haven't posted a darn thing worth reading, so why even have to look through your condencending, personal remarks.

Like I said before: if you don't like your training now, Shut the **** up go somewhere else. There is no reason to continue to bash people and the art here. What art do you really train in anyway? You have posted on several different areas mentioning several different arts you train in, so I'm just wondering.

 

[Bigshadow]

Dude, you lost me. Your point was about using the extended punching arm for additional attacks afterwards, right?

Actually it was Ben that said that, but yes one could. But I am not going to critique the video and pick apart whether or not they were doing it right.

Let me also point out there is a difference between a good punch and an overextended punch. Overextended is bad.

 

[Don Roley]

Oh, and you mis-spelled "intelectually".

Whoops! No he didn't.

 

[Bigshadow]

Whoops! No he didn't.

Yes he did.

 

[Don Roley]

Bigshadow is right, and my Japanese to English dictionary is wrong. That is weird. But I am glad to know my first call was right.

 

[Seattletcj]

Actually it was Ben that said that, but yes one could.

Come on man. You were defending the idea, right? Or was it just my imagination when you were talking about the principals and complexities of the "Trojan horse arm", and its broader budo significance ?

anyway....


:cheers:

 

[Bigshadow]

Come on man. You were defending the idea, right?

No, I was agreeing with Ben, because what he said makes sense to me.

 

[Cryozombie]

No, I was agreeing with Ben, because what he said makes sense to me.

What, someone with Ben's experience making sense???

Say it aint so!

 

[DWeidman]

I already did find him, and I am going to check out his training.

I don't think you have contacted me yet. David -- did he contact you?

-DW

 

[Rubber Tanto]

What, someone with Ben's experience making sense???

Say it aint so!