Ranks in Chinese Martial Arts?

[pstarr]

I'd just like to get everyone's thoughts/feelings regarding the concept of issuing rank, per se, in Chinese Martial Arts.

Adam Hsu has spoken out on this topic and believes that it is absolutely necessary.

In the PRC, "duan" grades are now being issued (similar to "dan" grades) except that they often require "mandatory" (wushu) sets...

What are your thoughts?

 

[funnytiger]

So long as that school doesn't claim to be traditional, I don't care.


Also... who is this 'Adam Hsu' and what are his reasonings for insisting that rankings be used?

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's a great marketing ploy to get people to sign up, keep them interested and feed their egos.

I wouldn't do it, but if it is the real thing, then I have no problem with it.

I believe Dr Yang gives out rank too.

 

[pete]

its a great way to get a bunch of adults to start acting like children

 

[oxy]

There are two ranks: Instructor and Student.

 

[Street Brawler]

The importance is grasping the concepts and apply it in a real life situation, that's the whole idea. 10 years ago, I was playing the video game "King of fighters". Many characters were considered to be masters and top fighters such as Takuma and that drunken master. I prefered Yamazaki, and I still beleive that he is the ideal character representing a guy who could grasp the concept and apply it on the brawls, it doesn't matter wheather the technique is dirty or not. Come on it is the street.:supcool:

My meaning is that many people seek ranks and titles to show others that "I am a master, you will get hurt if you hit me". Now this master may never know that he might get killed in the streets easily if he does not train properly and be ready, because there are such Yamazakis that could throw sand on you or just counter you with a hidden knife in the pocket. Got my point:ultracool.

 

[Kensai]

The importance is grasping the concepts and apply it in a real life situation, that's the whole idea. 10 years ago, I was playing the video game "King of fighters". Many characters were considered to be masters and top fighters such as Takuma and that drunken master. I prefered Yamazaki, and I still beleive that he is the ideal character representing a guy who could grasp the concept and apply it on the brawls, it doesn't matter wheather the technique is dirty or not. Come on it is the street.:supcool:

My meaning is that many people seek ranks and titles to show others that "I am a master, you will get hurt if you hit me". Now this master may never know that he might get killed in the streets easily if he does not train properly and be ready, because there are such Yamazakis that could throw sand on you or just counter you with a hidden knife in the pocket. Got my point:ultracool.

Agreed. In other words, belt alone don't prove worth.

 

[pstarr]

Adam Hsu is a very well known teacher in the San Francisco area and he's been around for many, many years.

One of the problems he has encountered (and I'm sure many of us have, as well) is that "X" claims to have studied under "Master Y" for a certain number of years and is therefore recognized as a qualified teacher and authority on Master Y's art.

However, just having "studied" with Master Y for a certain number of years doesn't tell us much. For instance,

• How often did X attend class? Once a week? Once a month? Every day?
• How well did he learn while he was in class? Was he a mediocre student or a gifted pupil?
• What is his level of skill as compared to other students in that art?

and so on.

We wouldn't go to a physician who never took a test or who isn't certified. If he assured us that he'd gone to a certain medical school, that wouldn't mean much when it came time for surgery...

Also, some teachers feel that gradings give students concrete goals towards which they can strive.

Thoughts?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Adam Hsu is a very well known teacher in the San Francisco area and he's been around for many, many years.

One of the problems he has encountered (and I'm sure many of us have, as well) is that "X" claims to have studied under "Master Y" for a certain number of years and is therefore recognized as a qualified teacher and authority on Master Y's art.

However, just having "studied" with Master Y for a certain number of years doesn't tell us much. For instance,

• How often did X attend class? Once a week? Once a month? Every day?
• How well did he learn while he was in class? Was he a mediocre student or a gifted pupil?
• What is his level of skill as compared to other students in that art?

and so on.

We wouldn't go to a physician who never took a test or who isn't certified. If he assured us that he'd gone to a certain medical school, that wouldn't mean much when it came time for surgery...

Also, some teachers feel that gradings give students concrete goals towards which they can strive.

Thoughts?

Good point.

But you can always buy a belt or a sash and claim the same.

I believe Dr Yang gives out stripes that are sown on the leg of the persons training pants, but again you can go buy the stripe and sow it on. Just do not show up in front of Dr Yang with the added stripe or stripes.

I do think the idea has merit, but it does not stop dishonest people from making false claims.

Anyone can show up in NYC and say I studied Karate with Fumio Demura and I got this black belt from him. Just as long as the sensei doesn't hear about it, he will probably get away with it.

 

[7starmantis]

I dont really mind the "ranking" or "belts" we wear shashes I just dont like people putting alot of importance on them. At our school its more of a way for new students to monitor their progress and havea tangible goal to strive for. As an advanced student, my black sash is nice and clean, neatly folded in my gym bag. I've worn it a grand total of 10 or so times and those were either participating in graduation as an instructor or teaching class.

In my area I get way too many peopel who are coming from TKD or no MA experience who only know belts and ranks. They can train at our school and feel comfortable seeing their progress, but eventually they will see the ranking really means nothing, in fact thats usually when they really start learning.

7sm

 

[Jade Tigress]

I dont really mind the "ranking" or "belts" we wear shashes I just dont like people putting alot of importance on them. At our school its more of a way for new students to monitor their progress and havea tangible goal to strive for. As an advanced student, my black sash is nice and clean, neatly folded in my gym bag. I've worn it a grand total of 10 or so times and those were either participating in graduation as an instructor or teaching class.

In my area I get way too many peopel who are coming from TKD or no MA experience who only know belts and ranks. They can train at our school and feel comfortable seeing their progress, but eventually they will see the ranking really means nothing, in fact thats usually when they really start learning.

7sm

We wear sashes too and they are used for the same reason you mentioned about monitoring progress and having a tangible goal to strive for. It's a product of western culture. We like benchmarks. There's nothing wrong with it IMO, as long as it's earned.

 

[7starmantis]

I agree. I would also like to add that most of our students who have passed the black level understand the usage of "ranks" and "sashes" and train for themselves and not a sash anymore. That is our goal, to educate the student by that time in their training.

7sm

 

[Flying Crane]

My sifu uses a ranking system, but it is not emphasised at all. Nobody actually wears them during class, and most people have never actually tested even tho they have been a member for several years. I wasn't even fully aware that he uses a ranking system until I had been with him for at least a couple years. I took my first and only test with him after about 6 years or so. We use it, but it is no big deal.