Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

[Joab]

It ain't that simple.

Keeping to some LOOSE similarities with this incident... Let's say a guy is thrown out of a house by the cops after beating his wife half to death. There's a protective order issued against him. Or even just legally evicted from the place for whatever reason... He's still got ID saying he lives there, but he doesn't necessarily have a right to be there. Some extra digging is appropriate even if he's got an ID that lists that address. What about a bad divorce or messy break-up?

Sure, the ID goes a long way towards supporting the claim. But it's not automatically going to end the discussion. A few more minutes chatting, a quick record check... and at least the cop has done what he can to make sure everything is right.

Your right. But they were called because of a break in. When they ascertained that the man with the ID was the man who broke in that should have pretty well finished it. There was no complaint about domestic violence. But you've made some valid points, perhaps a quick records check would have been a good idea.

 

[jks9199]

Isn't anyone noticing the charges against Professor Gates were dropped?

It doesn't matter whether you are in your own home or not. When you make a ruckus to the point where it can bother other people (the denser the population, the higher the risk) you run the risk for disorderly conduct.

Why isn't President Obama coming to the aid of the woman that was arrested by the Cambridge PD because she flipped out at a Starbucks over the amount of foam in her latte?

That the charges were dropped doesn't necessarily speak to the validity of the charges. (Gawd, that's a crappy sentence!)

The charges may have been dropped for a lot of reasons. It could be that the university police intervened on Prof. Gates's behalf, or a Cambridge cop who'd taken a class with him. It could be that the higher brass at the department recognized the headache this was going to be, and tried to smooth it over by having the charges dropped. Or that, after he calmed down at the station, everyone simply thought better of it, and cut him loose... (until he got home and got pissed off again). Or maybe someone was aware that, though the charge was valid, the local prosecutors or courts won't accept it. Or any of a couple dozen other possibilities...

By the way, the charges were dropped nearly a week later. That strongly suggests to me that it was either an appeasement effort (unwise, in my opinion), a response to the press storm, or pressure in the prosecutor's office.

 

[MJS]

Its perfectly normal to not only verify who everyone is, but to also check for any warrants, such as was already mentioned. Just the other day, 2 girls, both underage, wrapped their car around a pole. The driver was arrested for DUI and the passenger for a warrant.

This goes to show that there is more to it than simply having the Prof show his ID and the cops go on their way. I also find it interesting how the following questions are not being answered:

1) People are saying that it was the response of the cops, ie: lights/siren, that upset the Prof. So, if they took their time getting there, are you telling me people still would not cry foul?

2) What if there was someone inside or outside the residence? The cops fail to check, the Prof gets hurt or killed. Are you telling me that nobody would cry foul?

 

[jks9199]

I keep hearing the "this is a case of racial PROFILING"...they keep on using those words, I dont not think they mean what they think they mean.

Profiling means targeting a person for the initiation of police contact. I stop you because you are a black guy driving in a "white neighborhood". I stop some black youth on a bike because hes in a white neighborhood where there have been bike thefts...those are "profiling" (in the "Wrong" sense...there are also examples of legitimate uses of "profiling"). Making a valid arrest of someone doesn't make it "profiling" just because they were black. If I get called by SOMEONE ELSE to the scene of a crime and make an arrest very rarely does "profiling" enter the equation...9 times out of 10 profiling is is done when the cop is looking to make contact with someone.

Or, to be blunt, the only racial profiling that took place was from the original complainant -- if anyone. 'Cause I'd sure want someone to call the cops if they saw me (or anyone else) forcing their way into my house, and didn't know me.

To continue to be blunt -- I give the two police reports (linked on page 2 of this thread) a lot more credence than the professor's press accounts. Who's got more vested interest in portraying this a particular way? The cops who filed their reports within hours of the event (and probably now wish it'd just go away) or the professor who's suddenly getting national, popular press attention and has his new idea to push... and probably doesn't want to be perceived as having made an *** out of himself.

As I've said; I think there were failures in communication on both sides. There's something to learn from both sides. But any of that is being lost in the race argument.

 

[jks9199]

Police have to give name and badge number when asked by a citizen, it is the law. It is a perfectly reasonable question, and a professional police officer would have given them immediately with courtesy.

There's no such LAW in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Just about every agency does have a policy requiring officers to provide this information politely, when practical. Someone yelling, demanding, and causing a disturbance may just have to live with "it'll be on your arrest paperwork", ESPECIALLY if they've already been given it a few times...

Don't know about Massachusetts, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have such a law either.

 

[MJS]

Police have to give name and badge number when asked by a citizen, it is the law. It is a perfectly reasonable question, and a professional police officer would have given them immediately with courtesy.

I don't know about a law, but I would say its a courtesy. However, seeing that you said its a law, can you cite a source for that please?

 

[Archangel M]

And our president had NO PLACE putting "I dont have all the facts" AND "the police acted stupidly" together during a press confrence....

 

[Archangel M]

There's no such LAW in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Just about every agency does have a policy requiring officers to provide this information politely, when practical. Someone yelling, demanding, and causing a disturbance may just have to live with "it'll be on your arrest paperwork", ESPECIALLY if they've already been given it a few times...

Don't know about Massachusetts, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have such a law either.

Not a "law" here either...a policy in my PD..but not a law. This whole thing is becoming a bit antiquated. In this day and age of computer dispatching a citizen can call in and get all that at any time. If you give me a date and address I can tell you what the call was, who was there, access reports etc.

 

[Big Don]

The real racism I see in this case is Gates' screaming "Racist" all day long.
That, and President Obama's idiotic statement.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

And our president had NO PLACE putting "I dont have all the facts" AND "the police acted stupidly" together during a press confrence....

Hell, something like THAT isn't gonna stop HIM. Never has before.

 

[celtic_crippler]

And our president had NO PLACE putting "I dont have all the facts" AND "the police acted stupidly" together during a press confrence....

It's not his fault...it's what they put up on the teleprompter.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Whatever the sequence of events were no crime was committed and the home owner got arrested for forcing his own door. Charges were dropped so I guess the cops see it that way too.

No, he got arrested for acting like a jackass and creating a disturbance AFTERWARD!

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hopefully they make public the secret evidence provided to President Obama about this issue. He certainly wouldn't have condemned the police knowing as little about what really happened as we do.

:BSmeter:

 

[sgtmac_46]

Your right. But they were called because of a break in. When they ascertained that the man with the ID was the man who broke in that should have pretty well finished it. There was no complaint about domestic violence. But you've made some valid points, perhaps a quick records check would have been a good idea.

There's a lot folks putting quite a lot of stock in Gates version of events......a version I find highly suspect.

I think more accurate would be that Gates FINALLY provided identification, after a confrontation and a tirade......after providing identification the officer began to leave, and Gates, not content to leave it at that, followed himself and created a disturbance there.

But the most ASININE thing out of this whole situation was our Dictator and Chief's statements on the matter......

"Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said. "But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."



Obama continued: "What I think we know, separate and apart from this incident, is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact." He said that he had pushed for the passage of legislation in the Illinois legislature to address the problem.
Obama went on to say that he stood in the White House "as testimony to the progress that's been made."
"And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us," Obama said. "And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently, and often time for no cause, casts suspicion, even when there is good cause."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/22/AR2009072203800.html

So he doesn't KNOW for a fact that the police are racist, but he's going to assume so and call them such out of ACORN/Community Organizer habit.


The man is a DISGRACE to the White House.

 

[punisher73]

Let's recap what we DO know from Gates own statements and the Dispatch information.

1) He was gone out of town (in China), maybe the passerby knew that the occupant was supposed to be out of town.

2) There was NO luggage at the front door. That was taken around back by the driver. So the only thing seen was two people with backpacks trying to break in a door.

3) Gates is on the phone with the company that owns the house to report the damage to the front door. Police are at the front door and ask him to step outside. Gates continues with the phone conversation while police keep asking him to step outside.

Now for some assumptions.

Gates JUST got back from a trip to China. It's not far fetched to think that he was already tired from the trip and just wanted to get home and relax. Upon arriving home he has to spend who knows how long trying to get into his own house. After getting into his house he realizes that he has damaged the door and now has to make a call to get it fixed. His stress level is already pretty high and his patience probably really low.

The police get dispatched to a call about two men breaking into a house. Police arrive and see the front door damaged and try to make contact with the subject in the house. Police at this point don't know who he is or what he is doing. Their stress level is pretty high. After requesting ID, they are confronted with the person asking THEM to show proper ID while still attempting to establish his ID. Their patience level is probably pretty low at this point.

ID is established and the police want to leave. Owner follows them out of the house and continues to verbalize his displeasure with the situation. Police who now have had enough of listening to him arrest him for disorderly conduct.

This has NOTHING to do with race and everything to do with being human. Human beings will reach a point where they just have had enough. BOTH sides reached this point in the situation.

As far as the charges being dropped. That is NOT the call of the police agency. Only the Prosecuting Attorney's Office can do that. One of the reasons that they can dismiss charges is "would not be in the best interest of the public". They knew that they would have a crap storm if they continued on with the charges. They knew it would be in THEIR best interest to make it go away.

 

[punisher73]

And our president had NO PLACE putting "I dont have all the facts" AND "the police acted stupidly" together during a press confrence....

And yet very few people on this site believed my story about when Obyssmal came to our county to do an appearance. He ordered all LEO's away from him so he would not be seen or photographed with them. He has repeatedly shown a disrespect for those in uniform (military and police) and this is just another example of it.

How can you expect race relations to heal or get any better when the most influential person in the world jumps on the race bandwagon withouth knowing any of the facts?

 

[jks9199]

Gee... another page out of the Clinton success manual. They had a reputation for demanding that uniformed officers be kept well out of sight when they were around. Even if the uniforms were there for THEIR protection.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Sgt. Crowley is obviously a racist...I mean a white man giving CPR to a black man...putting his lips on his and trying to save his life...well, that's just plain racist. ...right...

Crowley at age 27 gave CPR to a dying Reggie Lewis, the Boston Celtics star who had a fatal heart attack in 1993 during a practice game at Brandeis University, where Crowley was a campus police officer at the time.

More, also provides links to the police report, and comments posted by Gates on the website he maintains...sickening. Gates is doing nothing to further the advancement of blacks or any minority, quite the contrary from where I sit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/23/police-officer-obama-butt-arrest/

 

[jks9199]

I didn't look much at Gates's website, TheRoot.com. Too much of the little I read seems like it's written by activists who have already made up their mind on any issue -- and it's always that the "white man is wrong." I've known professors of African American studies, and discussed some of these issues with them in the past; it's not a viewpoint intrinsic to their studies -- though it sometimes seems like it. The few articles I read clearly seemed to begin with the assumption that Gates was fully in the right, and the cop fully wrong.

Personally, I suspect the charges were dropped at the request of the police, hoping to smooth things over. I wish they weren't, because it creates the false impression that Sgt. Crowley was wrong. I have the same issue with the way the IACP and many police chiefs individually have addressed accusations of racial profiling. Before I go on, I freely admit that SOME officers do profile inappropriately -- but I also insist that they are a small minority today. Every study I'm aware of has NOT supported any institutional bias. In fact, one study was so contrary to the desired findings that the authors had to resort to publishing it as a book when the governmental body that commissioned it didn't like the results!

 

[celtic_crippler]

Just heard Sgt. Crowley is considering a lawsuit for defamation of character.

The more I learn about this the more I hope he goes through with it and wins.