Questionable pasts

[MA-Caver]

I have noticed in the past few years as I myself have grown as a person and a martial artist how many big name and no name people have questionable pasts, how long has this been a trend and what are your opinions on why they do it and how they get away with it

To paraphrase a popular ad today... "what's in your closet?"
Nearly everyone has something questionable but as pointed out it speaks volumes on who/what they are by how they use it (if at all).
If you're talking about out-n-out lies, exaggerations, embellishments and all that... someone here on MT had a signature that said... time will either raise you or expose you (or something like that).
Yeah some folks get away with it and will for years. As for why... c'mon why do most (not all) people do anything that could be a lucrative enterprise? $$$$$ and/or ego. When a person is doing it not for the money then they'll do it either for free or very cheap and won't give a damn what others may say about it. Their reputations and personal skills will sustain them and people who know... really know will attend their classes/seminars... and pay the prices.
It's been said repeatedly here on MT to check out an instructor and their instructor and their instructor and go back as far as you deem necessary to ascertain the (present) instructor actually knows what they're teaching. Thanks to www we have resources to check folks out before deciding to turning over our hard-earned dollars to them.
A smart person will know to do this.

btw this is the 6000th thread

Congrats... a good topic for that milestone.

 

[Ninebird8]

A couple of comments to nip alot of this: first, from a personal side, when I open a formal school instead of a garage this year, there will be pics of my three masters, their three masters, and as long as they are alive phone numbers below the pics of the masters. And, I will tell my students if there are any doubts, please call because I insist with no loss of face or worry about disclosure. They are paying for a service, one that actually has to do with their well being, self defense, and chi. Second, I would tell anyone when approaching a potential training place, to ask the teacher about his/her lineage, and those of his/her teacher. If the instructor acts with offense, hides the info, or is not forthcoming, do not train with them!! If they invented the style, as it were, they still had to have a basic understanding from somebody!!!

To those who think this would be a personal affront, in my opinion only to the ones who need to be affronted! This is rampant in Chinese Martial Arts and I believe in Tae Kwon Do as well?!

It is the same thing as putting out a false resume, purporting to have a Masters, a CPA, a law degree, etc. and then not having one. The only difference is these examples can lead to criminal prosecution....LOL!

 

[MA-Caver]

It is the same thing as putting out a false resume, purporting to have a Masters, a CPA, a law degree, etc. and then not having one. The only difference is these examples can lead to criminal prosecution....LOL!

Well yeah, but the MA equivalent is just as bad, no? Loss of reputation, honor, positive peer evaluation, respect and so on. Maybe they won't wear a number but they WILL wear a stigma and have that "smell" about them whenever they try to enter tournaments or anything akin to that. Others will know them by word of mouth (which we all know is THE best advertising), and even refuse to compete with them... I would.
May sound old school but it is basically the same principal of honoring the founder and teachers of the art by not pitting oneself against an dishonorable opponent.

 

[Ninebird8]

MA, I humbly agree with your point, but alas even after the stink hits, sooner or later a John C. Kim or other types seem to be able to teach without much affect. Although, even as recent as when I was a beginner over 30 years ago, or up until I would say the mid 80s, if someone believed the master of a school was a fake, he could come in and challenge him, and obtain his students if the master was beaten. Unfortunately, today I have heard of little instance of this. Like boxing, there is not real general control of quality in the martial arts, except self policing by a style's master/grandmaster, and thus becomes a rule of the person rather than a rule of law, as is my previous example. Usually, a rule of law is easier to enforce or punish than a rule of person or cult of personality, as it were! Eventually though, to your point, the person will fall before the legal point will...LOL!

 

[celtic_crippler]

My life (past, present, and future) are my own business unless it affects my students.

If you want to know about my Martial Arts history, then that's fine. By all means....dig all you want.

In the end, one shows what one knows. You can tell the blow-hards from the real-deals after a few minutes on the mat. However, beginners don't have it that easy because they have no basis for comparison. To them, I recommend doing some research on the school, organization, style, etc....before signing up for classes.

 

[Ninebird8]

Implicitly, MA, you raise a question I will pose to the rest of you here, especially if you are a lawyer: If a martial arts instructor represents self as something he/she is not, and the student was thus harmed or suffered physical/fiduciary harm, can the instructor either be sued by the student for theft of services or in criminal court for a level of fraudulent practice? Just curious. And, in most cases, will purchased liability insurance protect the school from damage rewards in either of these civil tort or criminal filings?

Hmmm....this is very interesting to me...thanks MA for making me think deep thoughts here before a formal school is opened......