Question re: females and respect at the dojo

[Tarot]

It has been said before (by both men and women) that sometimes women have to "prove" themselves a little more at the dojo to gain respect from their instructors and other students. Guys who are new at the school are already seen as serious trainers but women tend to have show everyone that they are just as serious.

I'm wondering if you feel this is actually the case? Have you seen this happen before? Do you personally feel this way? If you do, in your opinion what does the woman have to do in order to gain your respect or to prove that she is serious about her training?

It's an interesting topic that my husband and I have been discussing lately and I would love to hear other's opinons on the matter. :asian:

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I've been at schools like that both alone and with my wife. Can't say I care for that attitude. I've heard black belts say that if they lost a point sparring match to a woman, they'd throw their belt away. Can you get any more misogynistic than that?

The school I'm currently at, if any of the instructors see that kind of behavior, they put it down quick. Good bunch of guys I'm with right now.

Jeff

 

[beau_safken]

I saw that a little at some of my schools...but not much. Granted I didn't like sparring with woman as a matter of principle. Just can't hit a woman...so I let them get the first point and continue on after that. Not a sexist thing..just something thats really tough for me to get over. Maybe that's around a lot where you are. I don't care if woman want to train, I just don't like hitting them at all...makes me feel bad personally.

 

[Henderson]

It has been said before (by both men and women) that sometimes women have to "prove" themselves a little more at the dojo to gain respect from their instructors and other students. Guys who are new at the school are already seen as serious trainers but women tend to have show everyone that they are just as serious.

I'm wondering if you feel this is actually the case? Have you seen this happen before? Do you personally feel this way? If you do, in your opinion what does the woman have to do in order to gain your respect or to prove that she is serious about her training?

It's an interesting topic that my husband and I have been discussing lately and I would love to hear other's opinons on the matter. :asian:

I feel this is completely wrong. We are not male martial artists and female martial artists. We are simply martial artists. Failing to show women the same respect as men is disrespectful in itself.

my $.02

 

[chinto01]

I feel this is completely wrong. We are not male martial artists and female martial artists. We are simply martial artists. Failing to show women the same respect as men is disrespectful in itself.

my $.02

I agree 100% with you. At the dojo I first attended I was once told by the owner that they may be black belts but they are still women. What a closed minded fool he was. Women add just as much to the martial arts as men do and to think otherwise is stupid. Anyone ever read the story of Bushi Matsumura and his wife?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[beau_safken]

Does it somehow make it bad that my instructor would always beat the crap out of us if we cursed in front of ANY woman. Student or visitor... It's not a show of superiority or any of that bullWark...Its just showing respect. Granted if a woman wants to play our game, there aren't woman/men rules..just one set of rules.

Example... We had a woman in our class that would constantly abuse the fact that we couldn't curse or anthing infront of her. She would constantly apply too much pressure and dig her nails into you skin to get you to curse. One day during a drill called monkey line she came up against me. The rules of the line are to dispatch the other person by any means but you can't repeat a technique. She thought she would be clever and throw a fake punch but kick to the groin. I shot in on her and from behind pulled her down to the ground (Think put two hands on a person's sides from behind and fall while pulling them down). SLAM she went down, and I proceeded to place her in my favorite submission move, viper lock... Basically its a normal choke hold but you stick your hand in there to grind the side of the neck while esfixiating the person. Really really painful but very effective and easy. She wouldn't tap out...was just cursing and complaining I went rough on her as a girl. Guru didn't say a thing so I applied the pressure and got the tap. Her remark was I was a ******* and a son of a ***** for doing that to a girl. My retort, "If you wanted to play a cheap shot, don't expect anything but a cheap technique in return." She calmed down after that, but never tried that stuff again.

 

[BigCat63]

It has been said before (by both men and women) that sometimes women have to "prove" themselves a little more at the dojo to gain respect from their instructors and other students. Guys who are new at the school are already seen as serious trainers but women tend to have show everyone that they are just as serious.

I'm wondering if you feel this is actually the case? Have you seen this happen before? Do you personally feel this way? If you do, in your opinion what does the woman have to do in order to gain your respect or to prove that she is serious about her training?

It's an interesting topic that my husband and I have been discussing lately and I would love to hear other's opinons on the matter. :asian:

At the school where I train I dont believe a female has to do anything more or extra to gain respect. Our Head Instructors/School Owners are a married couple so we do have a woman at the top of our food chain. I think this helps a little especially with new male students. It is some of the new male students in my opinion who are the ones most likely to have respect issues with a female. These individuals are quickly sorted out.
To get respect at our school regardless of gender you simply need to show up and put in a real effort. We have quite alot of female students who seem to thrive in this enviroment. My wife began training here about a year after I started and she earned her 1st Black one year ago.
My teacher has always been the female half of our Owners and quite honestly I never thought twice about the fact she was female. From my first lesson when I saw what she could do I was very proud to learn from her.
I had a co worker who was a male in his mid-20's. When he heard my teacher was a woman he insisted that he could without a doubt whoop her or any female for that matter. He was completely untrained and not even a big guy. I pressed him on this, asking how he could hope to prevail over a woman with a 7th dan in Kenpo and a Black in AikiJujutsu. He said that it was all about his superior strength and no woman could possibly cope with that. So I invited him down to a sparring class and he eagerly agreed. I watched with joy as he had his arrogant *ss handed to him over and over again by several different women.

 

[rutherford]

Put me down as a "No" like the rest of the fine folks in this thread.

 

[stickarts]

Everyone that walks through our door receives equal respect and as their journey progresses gains more respect or less respect on their own merits.
In the sparring ring, we have some women that mix it up just fine and will take the fight to you if you don't take it to them!
Its not an issue with us.

 

[Lisa]

I concur with the other great posters in this thread. I would certainly hope this would not be the case. Perhaps it still happens if the instructor has that attitude in his school? Well, if he does, he and his students are missing out on some great training partners. Really too bad for them being so short sighted.

 

[Tarot]

I feel this is completely wrong. We are not male martial artists and female martial artists. We are simply martial artists. Failing to show women the same respect as men is disrespectful in itself.

my $.02

This is my opinion also. I really hate gender stereotyping and when rules/attitudes are based on gender. To me, it's just plain ridicolous as it serves no purpose, IMO.

It's interesting (to me anyway ) reading everyone's thoughts and experiences on the topic. My only experience, was where I used to take TKD, another student who was the same rank as myself, believed himself to be more superior because he was a guy and basically said as much to me. I was annoyed at the time but realized he was the one with the problem not me.

 

[IcemanSK]

I've had several great instructors who happen to be women. The best two had come up thru the "old school" (70's & early 80's) where they had to "prove themselves" a lot. I learned from them that gender has nothing to do with MA.

I have noticed something about the way women tend to approach training, however. They tend to really study & try get the technique down more quickly than men do. Perhaps they realize they can't rely on strength so they tend to pay closer attention to the technique works.

my $.02

 

[terryl965]

Man woman or child gets the same attention as everyone else. We train everybody and everybody is equal on the mat.
Terry

 

[still learning]

Hello, In our Kempo classes everyone is treated equally and fairly. Each person have their own learning curves, some catch on fast, others you will have to go over it many times. (both for men and women).

We are lucky to have almost 50% women in our adult classes, for grappling training, women will train with other women. Most of the women prefer this. (sometimes men and women train together too)

The rest of the stuffs....everyone do the same things. We look at everyone as individuals,each with their own personalities, and help them base on this. (Men and women.)

We do not allow gender talks that are negatives,( very rare). Everyone is there to learn! It feels like a high school class room since most of the students in the adults class are still in high school. They all ask alot of questions too! and are very respectful students....Aloha

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

In my dojo, aside from little kid girls, there were few women training. Those that did train, with one exception, I treated a bit gentler. Why? 1) I, too, was raised not to hit girls. It's a hard thing to get past. 2) They tended to be more white-belt than me. I just go easier on them anyhow.

The exception? We have a young woman (21+) training with us now. Although a rank beginner, she makes me think of the woman in Million Dollar Baby; so, when the time comes to fight, I will likely pull my punches less. She strikes me (no pun, thank you) as a serious student, just watching her do kata and spar with others.

Conversely, I must say, if I stood opposite a person that was just goofing off or not caring about sparring, I would pummel them a bit harder if they were male than if they were female. Misogynistic? I dunno. Don't think so. Chivalrous? Maybe not that far. I'm just a little old-fashioned; but, I don't do it out of a dark bias.

 

[Kacey]

Students should be treated fairly - old, young, male, female, physically fit or not, etc. The thing to remember is that "fair" and "equal" are two different concepts: "fair", to me, means taking any student from his/her current ability level as far as possible; "equal" means treating everyone the same, and that is, in my opinion, inappropriate when dealing with individuals.

 

[tshadowchaser]

i have students in my school all must prove themsleves. But as was said by Kacey fair and equal are not the same. However I make them all do the same excercises an require them to be able to demonstrate the same thing, some just do it better

 

[MJS]

It has been said before (by both men and women) that sometimes women have to "prove" themselves a little more at the dojo to gain respect from their instructors and other students. Guys who are new at the school are already seen as serious trainers but women tend to have show everyone that they are just as serious.

I'm wondering if you feel this is actually the case? Have you seen this happen before? Do you personally feel this way? If you do, in your opinion what does the woman have to do in order to gain your respect or to prove that she is serious about her training?

It's an interesting topic that my husband and I have been discussing lately and I would love to hear other's opinons on the matter. :asian:

Personally, everyone should be treated equal. I've seen quite a few women who take their training very serious, and have no problem mixing it up with the male students.

Mike

 

[BrandiJo]

i have never had to prove myself just because i was a girl, we play hard and train hard it goes for everyone.

 

[thescottishdude]

In my classes there's usually 90% males and 10% females. That siad, in Tae Wan Do clubs the ratio of women is much higher. Its a good martial arts for them as its all about kicking and less upper body strength is needed.