Question: Hostility toward MA???

[AdrenalineJunky]

I've noticed that when MA comes up in a conversation I'm having, women seem to be fascinated by it, but men seem to kind of become hostile toward me. I would have totally thought it would be the other way around; women detesting such neanderthal behavior, and men totally drooling over the idea of being a fighter. Like, this weekend, I went out to the bar w/my sisters and met up with some of their friends. I spent maybe thirty minutes answering questions about MT. And when some guys started in on the conversation, I got that "I bet I could take you" attitude. Another thing, which my sparring partner and I were discussing yesterday, when we train in the front yard at home, girls drive by looking like "oh, what are they doing?", and guys drive by and give us dirty looks. What gives? Have you guys/gals noticed this?

AJ

 

[Ceicei]

I'd hazard a guess. The guys may view other guys (martial artists) as being on an ego trip or as competition. The females generally like "strong" guys and sports/martial arts/heavy-duty physical activities does showcase that strength/skill.

Now, the subject of females as martial artists usually gets me very strange looks. There is better reception if I mention sports (such as basketball or volleyball). For some reason, people regard martial arts as a masculine "tough" domain that aren't fitting for "ladies". Because of that, I don't usually bring up that I'm into martial arts with other people any more.

- Ceicei

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Is this something you experience, as well? Okay, when I tell people that I'm trying to get my amateur motorcycle roadracing license, the girls seem relatively uninterested, while the guys can sit and talk for HOURS about it. I don't know, kinda weird. Same thing with paintball: girls = lame, guys = cool. Why is MA different? Sometimes I don't even want it to come up because I wonder if some guy's gonna try to stir the poo. :idunno:

AJ

 

[Feisty Mouse]

If other women hear about my training in MA, they are usually indifferent to very enthusiastic and supportive. Guys are sometimes amused/pleased, or become disinterested.

From people of both sexes, however, occasionally I get the "you must be really violent" comment or perception. THAT really bothers me. The more I train in MA, the LESS I think I'm likely to hurt someone unless they are truly trying to hurt me - I am learning to control my body and myself better.

That's my pet peeve.

 

[jeffkyle]

Just remember.....regardless of what the girls like....the COURTS don't like the masculine/male ego/karate/physical abuse/beating up the women kind of stuff!

 

[Hanzo04]

why did you have to mention the courts? bad choice. besides there is already a thread for that. let's not change the subject.

as for the topic at hand I have the same responses. both the males and females i talk to about martial arts (if it comes up) think it's cool that i'm learning how to defend myself. and i'm from Chicago by the way.

 

[mcjon77]

Is this something you experience, as well? Okay, when I tell people that I'm trying to get my amateur motorcycle roadracing license, the girls seem relatively uninterested, while the guys can sit and talk for HOURS about it. I don't know, kinda weird. Same thing with paintball: girls = lame, guys = cool. Why is MA different? Sometimes I don't even want it to come up because I wonder if some guy's gonna try to stir the poo. :idunno:

AJ

Paintball is a fantasy game. motercycle racing does not involve direct conflict. Even if you talked about guns you would probably have guys interested and women not interested.

But MA represents hand to hand combat, the most basic, primitive, and true form of the attempt of one man to dominate another. It represents being (or attempting to be) an "alpha male" in the truest sense of the term. In those nature shows, think about how one male establishes his dominance in the group over another male. He doesn't forage for the most food (business). He doesn't get a group of other animals to attack his opponents allies (war). No, the 2 animals lock horns and go at it one on one, until another submits.

By saying you study martial arts people infer that you are skilled in hand to hand combat, which many men take as a direct threat against their egos/status. This is especially true if, other than the MA training, you and the other man are physically equal, or you are somewhat smaller than him. If Arnold Swarzenagger (sp?) said to that he was taking martial arts, most men would simply feel like even more of a beta male compared to him. They already thought (at least in the back of their minds) that he could kick their ***, now they are simply even more sure of it.

However, if a man is talking to someone he feels is his physicial equal or inferior, and that person starts talking about how they study martial arts, AND the man begins to doubt now whether he could win a fight against him, that man usually feels threatened. This is especially true if there are eligible women around.

One of the beauties of studying MA is that it helps get a handle on one's ego and fears of inferiority. As soon as you start studying the martial arts, the question as to whether there are people out there who can kick your *** is answered, and the answer is almost always yes. This realization that you do not have (and will never be) to be the biggest, toughtest, most unbeatable fighter around is very freeing. It allows you to open you mind and heart to learning from people who would have been blocked before by your ego.

Jon

 

[Rich Parsons]

Not all males get upset. Yet, those that do, I have found are of the SPS, and think everyone involved in Martial Arts is there to prove how tough they are. Now in some cases this is quite true when you get a street fighter (* honest to gosh thug, villian type *) and the sport / work out martial artist. So, it depends upon he reputation of martial arts in your area, and what the main schools are like.

As to women liking it, many women think self defense and that would be cool to know, until they hear about the long hours and hard work, and then continue with their lives, as they have other priorities.


Now, I also do not bring up that I train or teach. I have had problems with guys who are out to prove something. I have had problems with women who say thing like, "Oh! Can you beat him up?". I have dropped women off real fast as soon as I could pay the bill. Maybe one time, and you say I do not wish to make those type of comparisons, for I do not know what they know and do not know. And then the woman continues to ask.

I do not lie about it, I just do not advertise it.

:asian:

 

[mcjon77]

Just wanted to add that in my previous post I was describing martial arts and knowing martial arts from the perspective of the insecure male.

Jon

 

[MichiganTKD]

I would agree with many of the postings. Men, by nature, tend to be competitive. We don't like things which might give our competition a leg up (no pun intended) on us. Therefore, two martial artists will appreciate each other, even compare or compete. But still appreciate. Two non-martial artists will find ways to outdo each other in the talent department. However, a martial artist to a non-martial artists is often seen as a potential threat to the status quo-someone you probably cannot beat should there be violence between the two. Sort of like carrying a gun. It is not necessarily the gun itself we hate, it is the fact that someone has an advantage over us.
Since men are seen as the protectors of society, anything we do to strengthen our ability to protect is viewed favorably, especially by women, who tend to appreciate that role more. Since men tend to be the disruptors of society more (murderers, rapists, thugs etc), a trained martial artists is often subconsciously seen as having an advantage over the rest of us. A lot of it might be due to jealousy. Think about it: don't many of us subconciously resent the police for having equipment and training we don't? We might still be grateful for their presence, but on a certain level view them as potential competitors and adversaries

 

[KungFuWarrior]

But MA represents hand to hand combat, the most basic, primitive, and true form of the attempt of one man to dominate another. It represents being (or attempting to be) an "alpha male" in the truest sense of the term. In those nature shows, think about how one male establishes his dominance in the group over another male. He doesn't forage for the most food (business). He doesn't get a group of other animals to attack his opponents allies (war). No, the 2 animals lock horns and go at it one on one, until another submits.

Jon

I agree with you if you look at the way animals act in nature you can see how humans act subconciously.

1. When you say you study martial arts it makes the other male seem inferior and since in nature its all about survival of the fitest this will cause problems in some male expecially if your talking to Billy Bad A$$.

2. Women like animals are attracted subconciously to mates that can protect or provide for their needs so I think thats why they are attracted to the martial artist.

3. Male animals are all about reproducing and spreading their genes (just like us guys lol) so when you take away his women Billy Bad A$$ gets even more hostile.

Hope this Helps.

 

[Cryozombie]

I dunno. Iv'e never found that I have impressed a woman with my "mad ninja Skillz"

I have impressed some male friends tho... so Its pretty much the opposite for me. But then again, The people in my office are all afraid of me... they seem to think that I am just waiting to leap on them and give them a "Karate Chop"... and my boss who is a TKD blackbelt doesnt understand the art I do, so he looks down on me for it... as inferior.

Dunno what to say.

 

[hedgehogey]

I tend to think the exact opposite. Unless they're judoka, when I think "martial artist" I tend to think "man who likes to kick the air and pretend to be an animal" or "Mmm. Fresh meat."

In fact, I avoid telling people I do "martial arts" altogether. Kickboxing and submission grappling tends to get a better response.

 

[Tony]

I dunno. Iv'e never found that I have impressed a woman with my "mad ninja Skillz"

I have impressed some male friends tho... so Its pretty much the opposite for me. But then again, The people in my office are all afraid of me... they seem to think that I am just waiting to leap on them and give them a "Karate Chop"... and my boss who is a TKD blackbelt doesnt understand the art I do, so he looks down on me for it... as inferior.

Dunno what to say.

Reminds me of my so called friend who has been doing Taekwondo for 2 years against my 6 years of shaolin Long fist Kung Fu. He seems to look down on what I do as laughable. "why don't you be a man and do Taekwondo"?
And another time when we were all together, my friend and me with him and 3 girls from his class. One of them was talking to me and innocently asked me why don't I do Taekwondo to which I replied "because I prefer Kung Fu"
And then he said " because Taekwondo is too fierce for you".
I didn't rise to this, better to let him think what he likes until he gets his a@@e kicked by a kung fu guy.
But this and many reasons is why I don't tell anyone I do Kung Fu to avoid all those silly comments, but if I'm talking to a fellow Martial Artist its always nice to share information. I really welcome this but not the people who say " I bet you're hard"!

 

[Phoenix44]

This is a gender-sensitive question--I have no idea what gender you are, AdrenalineJunky. I remember watching a TV show called "Straight Plan for the Gay Man," sort of a corollary to "Queer Eye," where straight men try to teach a gay man how to "pass." And one thing they said was, "To a straight guy, EVERYTHING is a competition. If I order a hot dog, you have to order TWO hot dogs."

I don't know if that's true (although some of my male friends say it is), but if so, I can see why a male martial artist may encounter some hostility, or at least some competitiveness.

As a FEMALE, and an older female at that, I am generally regarded positively, or at least as a mild curiosity. My brother in law, who had no MA experience, once wanted to spar with me, to see if he could "take" me. I declined. And my ex-husband regards my MA training with hostility...but that's why he's my EX-husband.

 

[Tony]

This is a gender-sensitive question--I have no idea what gender you are, AdrenalineJunky. I remember watching a TV show called "Straight Plan for the Gay Man," sort of a corollary to "Queer Eye," where straight men try to teach a gay man how to "pass." And one thing they said was, "To a straight guy, EVERYTHING is a competition. If I order a hot dog, you have to order TWO hot dogs."

I don't know if that's true (although some of my male friends say it is), but if so, I can see why a male martial artist may encounter some hostility, or at least some competitiveness.

As a FEMALE, and an older female at that, I am generally regarded positively, or at least as a mild curiosity. My brother in law, who had no MA experience, once wanted to spar with me, to see if he could "take" me. I declined. And my ex-husband regards my MA training with hostility...but that's why he's my EX-husband.

Hi Phoenix

I'm curious as to why your brother in law would even challenge you. This does not sound like Gentlemanly behaviour. Still if you had accepted and he had beaten, what would that have proved? or if you had seriously humiliated him infront of his peers, he would have been a laughing stock.
I remember in my Kung Fu class I had to spar with this girl who was the same grade as me but I backed off because I was scared of hurting her and I guess I've been brought up that way, so I let her hit me a little. She had great technique and I had a lot of respect for her but I was just afraid I might hurt her. Silly i know and she did get hurt because she accidentally bent her toe back while I blocked one of her kicks. I felt so bad but she amazed me and kept on sparring but I just took even more easy on her!
But women can be just as skilled and aggressive as men. Look at the sport of Boxing. Women are already making their mark as already Muhammed Ali's daughter Tatyana has become a champion and Britain's Jane Couch is a serious fighter and I certainly wouldn't want tp upset her!
In fact I woudl have no problems learning from these people, especially Cynthia Rothrock who I think is absolutely awesome but she can not act! But she a fantastic Martial Artist.
I think you ex husband was hostile to your training because he was insecure and afraid you could b@tch slap him when needed and make him feel less of a man.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

My brother in law, who had no MA experience, once wanted to spar with me, to see if he could "take" me. I declined. And my ex-husband regards my MA training with hostility...but that's why he's my EX-husband.

This sounds very familiar to me, and touches a nerve. My ex-husband, as well, really hated my MA training. Of course, it was wrapped up in bigger issues - like having a practice of my own, taking time away from him, etc. Big unhappy story. But I've also occasionally gotten the guy (never girl) who is amused by hearing I train in MA, and wants to "see what I can do". It really ticks me off - esp. the condescension.

 

[Phoenix44]

I'm curious as to why your brother in law would even challenge you. This does not sound like Gentlemanly behaviour.

And there you have it.

Still if you had accepted and he had beaten, what would that have proved? or if you had seriously humiliated him infront of his peers, he would have been a laughing stock.

Well, never mind the non-martial arts jerks--I don't engage them. BUT, this is an interesting issue, and one I deal with in the dojo with the lower rank men. Lower rank men HATE to spar or grapple with me. If they win, well, so what? They beat a chick. And if they lose, it's even worse, because they lost to a chick! This is never a problem with my usual advanced male partners, because they're comfortable with their own skills.

I think you ex husband was hostile to your training because he was insecure and afraid you could b@tch slap him when needed and make him feel less of a man.

No. He was hostile because I had the audacity to do something that didn't involve him.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

mcjon77, thank you for your post, well put. Phoenix44, yes I'm a guy, but everything in my life isn't a competition between me and someone else, it's more like a competition between me and, well. . .me.:ultracool Just to clarify, I don't advertise my Muay Thai training, but I lost about 65 lbs. over the last six months and, because I haven't been out much due to training, the weight thing comes up and people ask how I lost it. Also, I wasn't suggesting that I'm stealing any women, just that I was surprised that they were interested in something I didn't think a majority of women would show interest in; and, by contrast, something I'd expect guys to be interested in seemed to provoke bad attitudes in place of "whoa, that's pretty cool!," kinda thing.:idunno:

Lower rank men HATE to spar or grapple with me. If they win, well, so what? They beat a chick. And if they lose, it's even worse, because they lost to a chick! This is never a problem with my usual advanced male partners, because they're comfortable with their own skills.

Phoenix44, in my opinion, anybody with this type of attitude should take up a different hobby. Although, there was a girl on my highschool wrestling team. I remember feeling a little ackward about where was appropriate to grab and what not. But as an adult, I figure if you're in this sport (MA) you kinda just. . .get over it. Anyways, my thanks to everybody for their responses.

AJ

 

[shesulsa]

It's good to know other females have had the same experiences I have. I specifically asked my husband and anyone close to me who knew I was training again to NOT TELL ANYONE. But they can't resist - it's like my training is likened to their photos of the grandkids. So I get the interest from women and the hostility from men also. I've been challenged - by my own brother, for cryin' out loud! We actually had a little conflict. We were embracing and he turned his hip into me and started to pull me close as though to hip-throw me. I stopped his hip, applied pressure points at the side of the neck and dropped my weight. He bent over backwards - literally. I didn't hurt him, but still he kept giving me the old "How's it goin' buddy" type of jab in the arm after that and insisted that since he has street experience he could kick my a** any time he wanted to.

Any my ex is 4th degree Kenpoka, plus he resents that my/"our" daughter is training in KMA instead of Kenpo - wants her to stop training KMA and just learn from him. She only sees him once or twice per year (he lives 1,000 miles away). Everytime they speak, he asks her stupid questions like, "So why do you call it a dojang?? Everybody knows it's a DOJO. That's stupid - it should just be called one name. I don't like Koreans," blah blah blah.

And all of my inlaws claim there is just no substitute for a good .44 strapped to your side...claim they'd shoot me from 100 yards away while I was still trying to kick them.

Ah well....