Push-Pull

[Cryozombie]

Forgive me if this doenst make sense but its late and my terminology is bad...

Someone was explaining to me, that some sword work in the Bujinkan differs from "traditional" samurai sword work and is more "ninja" in origin in that instead of drawing cuts to "slice" an oppnent, you use a rocking motion like in the sanshin to do a "push-pull motion with the swordblade after it has made contact with the body almost like "sawing" thru an opponet to make a bigger wound. I havn't had the opportunity to discuss this with my instructor but I will. Since I wont see him for a week, i thought id post this here and see if this is hogwash or if it has any basis in truth...

 

[Pervaz]

Techno,

Its not a 'ninja' thing..its good sword techniques.

Try cutting some meat without the 'sawing' motion...You have to remember to use the whole body which leads to the sawing motion..

P

 

[arnisador]

You'd be surprised how often a sword/knife gets 'stuck' in the opponent's body. Especially if there are multiple opponents (e.g. a battlefield), this is an issue!

 

[r erman]

Most of the bujinkan swordwork comes from Kukishinden, a samurai art. It's bunk that the pushing is a 'ninja' thing. 'Good' swordsmanship will utilize both methods. Anyone who doubts this go tell James Williams that pullng the blade back while cutting is bad, lol.

 

[heretic888]

Most of the bujinkan swordwork comes from Kukishinden, a samurai art. It's bunk that the pushing is a 'ninja' thing.

Samurai... ninja.... why is everyone still acting like there's a real difference between the two??

 

[r erman]

You are right, there is no solid black line demarcating the two. However, the combat training of the groups that became known as ninja(shinobi, iga no shu, rappa...whatever) came from samurai lineage. That's what I'm trying to say. There is no difference in the movement. It's the same weapons(and yes so-called samurai only ryuha had just as many sneaky ways to utilize ken, yari, yumi, bo, kusari) and the same jujutsu/taijutsu/yoroi kumi uchi...etc.

The only difference would be the subtle/not-so-subtle technical and strategic differences between various ryuha--which is obvious in all feudal japanese arts.

 

[heretic888]

*claps hands in applause*

Bravo bravo!!

You are right, there is no solid black line demarcating the two. However, the combat training of the groups that became known as ninja(shinobi, iga no shu, rappa...whatever) came from samurai lineage. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yes. When I was reading about Hatsumi-soke's records concerning the 'founding' of both the Iga-den and Koga-den, it very much struck me that these individuals were the equivalents of the 'samurai' and 'daimyo' in their respective regions (although, technically, there was no real difference between samurai and the commoners until the mid-to-late 1500's).

There is no difference in the movement. It's the same weapons(and yes so-called samurai only ryuha had just as many sneaky ways to utilize ken, yari, yumi, bo, kusari) and the same jujutsu/taijutsu/yoroi kumi uchi...etc.

The only difference would be the subtle/not-so-subtle technical and strategic differences between various ryuha--which is obvious in all feudal japanese arts.

Bingo. I agree completely.

Laterz.